What I wonder about is did she learn this from a previous trainer. I can certainly remember Barbara Worth tying a horse next to a jump he “didn’t like” for a few days, albeit with food and water. The old “you just think about it, Mister.”
4 Likes
I mean, it’s not something I would do, but at least from the horse’s perspective, he MIGHT have associated that particular spot in the arena with a respite from work, and some food and water. I mean god help you if you moved the jump or stopped giving him snacks in that spot and expected him to jump… 
3 Likes
On the show grounds , depriving food and water is a chargeable offense
As challenging as the USEF rule book is to find info and navigate, anyone who wishes to show, should be familiar not only with the discipline rules but the general rules.
In the use of animals in research, the withholding of food and water , for whatever purpose, must be justified with data and supported in the study design, and approved.
1 Like
I mean, I’ve strapped a lattice gate jump filler to a stall wall to make the horse live with it until they got over it…
Is that bad?
If the tie is an appropriate length, and they aren’t tied there for 10 hours with no food or water or anyone to check in on the horse, I do think that tying is a great tool to teach a lot of things. But that’s not what happened here.
5 Likes
The problem is, horses don’t seem to think like that.
They don’t generalize the lattice in his stall is same as the one on another place, may not even be the lattice itself he was shying for but how it looked as a jump, or other in that jump that it shied from.
One year we had those car dealer colorful strings of flags by the fair show grounds.
Practically all horses were shying from them fluttering in the wind.
We had the bright idea to put several strings in the horse pens.
Horses ignored them, didn’t scare them at all.
Next year fair was again next to some such strings and there, horses were again shying from them.
To us, a flag is a flag, a fluttering flag is still the same any place.
To the horses, it was not suspicious in the home pens, it was by the show ring.
One trainer was bucked off starting a horse jumping.
Horse ran to his stall, trainer marched there and, grabbing the bridle, hit the horse over the rump a few good cracks. I doubt the horse being so treated in his stall knew that was because a while back he dumped said trainer, all it knew is some humans are unpredictable.
What we as humans easily understand as cause and effect is different than what horses do from what happens in their lives, some times they do make the connection, but now always when we think they do or will and I think that lattice in the stall being not scary was a stretch it would translate to a lattice on the jump being ok.
I would say moving the lattice around to one side or on several different jumps while making the jumps very inviting may familiarize the horse to it as a jump feature, along with adding other different things to jumps, so the horse learns jumps come in all kinds of strange looking things, the lattice just one more of those, maybe half covered with a towel, etc.
We started colts when ready for scary things by having those around but not where they would scare them, then closer and moving away from them and that gave horses confidence and most ended following those scary things as a fun game.
Those games gave us more forward and brave colts, the world was not scary, but something to investigate and that attitude helped, kept them from becoming anxious with new things.
The important lesson here was not teaching each scary new thing is ok, but teach all scary things are ok when we say so.
I agree that tying a horse properly and safely is part of any horse’s education.
Tying a horse as punishment for something that happened a while back, “to let it think it over”?
The problem there is with the trainer’s lack of understanding how horses think.
As for the lawsuit, guess the courts will decide here.
58 Likes
FWIW, strapping it in the stall did fix the lattice filler issue.
You can also speed up some head-shyness or ear-shyness training by hanging things over the feed bucket where the horse has to let them touch in order to enjoy their grain.
I’m all for horses self-training where I can.
The tying is not used as a punishment. It’s more of a “relax” zone. I think it’s useful for the horse who is in an awful big hurry to be finished with a ride, in order to go back in their stall. Ok, but you still don’t have freedom in here, friend. Relax.
9 Likes
@Bluey, I just want to thank you for your consistently kind and level-headed advice. It is always sensible, humble, and helpful. Kudos to you.
29 Likes
All of us have our stories and maybe some of those will help someone else.
The important part is the ideas, to think it all thru, now with more to go by. 
10 Likes
Absolutely. If there’s one thing that horses do consistently, it’s humble us and make us dig through “the toolbox” to find a method that works the best for that animal.
15 Likes
I know someone whose horse went to investigate a mylar balloon that had landed in his pasture. The string got caught up in his halter and he panicked - galloped through a 4-board fence and around the farm with the balloon chasing him the whole way. He finally went tearing into the barn to the safety of his stall and skidded out on the brick aisle floor and crash landed before managing to scramble into his stall. He was terrified and had road rash and cuts on this face and body. In addition to treating his wounds, his owner (a dressage trainer) tied the mylar balloon to the bars of his stall, so he could “learn to not be afraid of it.” 
2 Likes
My horse is afraid of bears, I wonder if I stuck one in her stall if she’d “learn to not be afraid of” them
13 Likes
I decided not use a well-recommended Western colt starter for a month or two of training after learning that one of the cornerstones of his philosophy was tying the horse to a pole, and then going away to work another horse for an hour or two so that the horse learned to stand still when tied with no eyes on them.
I know a lot of people use this method, but it just wasn’t ok with me. I explained this in what I thought was a non-confrontational way. His reply was that English riders ruin horses by not being tough with them. My reply at that point was something to the effect that he shouldn’t let the door hit him in the a$$ on the way out of the barn. 
26 Likes
AAAARRRGGGGHHHH
To continue on with what Bluey said.
Tie plastic bags around a yard and they ignore. Ride 2 hours away and a plastic bag flies over a wheelie bin into their face and they spin and bolt.
Spooky Object Training, which is different to Desensitisation. Teaches a horse to stand still if they get a fright.
So they spin or don’t spin from the bag flying into their face. Then they stand still they don’t bolt.
My boy who was Spooky Object trained. 16.2hh tb, newly off the track, 4 yo, snaffle bit, dressage rider in a dressage saddle.
A western rider came up to the fence. Stock horse about 15hh, Stock saddle, curb bit and had his dog with him.
As we were chatting his dog touched the electric fence and yelped, them took off bounding over the long grass, rocks, etc, yelping every stride for home.
Both horses spun.
My boy then stood and we both watched as the stockhorse took off for home. The rider was trying to turn his head to us. It went out through its shoulder and it was jumping over the long grass and falling and tripping very rocks etc.
It went such a long way before he was able to stop it. He was lucky it didn’t stumble and fall on him.
1 Like
Agree very strongly here. Horses feel anxiety in new situations and when encountering new things because they are prey animals. Teaching the horse to manage its anxiety and trust you, the rider/handler in new and novel situations is the foundation of a brave and easy horse on the ground and under saddle. When the horse can manage its anxiety it can use the thinking side of the brain instead of the reactive side, and is much less likely to panic or injure itself in new or potentially dangerous situations. Teaching a horse how to be less reactive and manage its anxiety must be a step by step process tailored to the individual and always closely supervised, IMO.
17 Likes
The help tied my horse to a pole and left him when he was being agitated during turnout. He broke his halter and took off. We are still working through agitation issues 2 years later. He’s a busy minded horse, it takes him some time to settle. So, I’m with you, I’m not a fan of the patience pole for agitated or busy horses. You can help a horse learn to stand still without it.
7 Likes
I guess it’s all in how you do it, because I have helped lots of horses who are a little “extra” in their conduct by tying them and waiting until they settle to release them.
Rope halter on a blocker ring for me though.
8 Likes
Horses do understand cause and effect but not something as being mishandled by a trainer with such a poor equine education that she high tied him and left him because he refused load.
Two or three people can explain loading to a balky horse, simply by having a knowledgeable person on the lead, and two quietly tapping with a longe whip (longe whip keeps one out of range of a kick). The horse usually quickly figures out that he will be endlessly annoyed unless he goes forward.
Of course that brings us back to the word knowledgeable.
14 Likes
I’m not sure her method were spot on, but I think her thought process was with good intentions, or at least my thought process is that this poor horse has been terrorized by an object that he has a decent chance of encountering again. It’s not a bad thing to make sure he doesn’t have an unreasonable (or reasonable) fear of it going forward. Putting a balloon where the horse could make peace with it on his own terms as a starting point wasn’t a mean or even thoughtless thing in my mind.
I had a horse do similar things when he spun me off and as I was half stepping half falling off, the saddle slipped to the side… and then under his belly. Poor guy crashed into a metal gate on the driveway then ran into another pasture and wiped out before he decided the safest course of action was to stay down until I came and saved him. Fun times. I spent a good couple of weeks reintroducing him to the saddle on his back, and I started immediately because I wanted every chance to say “this is not scary, this isn’t a big deal”. I wasn’t sure where or when the fear point would start in the process, but we were going to cover every inch of that potential ground in the safest way possible.
So the upshot is that I probably would have got a balloon and figured out where the horse’s comfort point vanished and then I would move the balloon away a few inches and tie it some place safe so he could feel safe AND see a killer balloon. Chances are that he wasn’t associating the balloon in the barn with balloons in pastures though, but it’s where I’d start because it’s safe and controllable. And you could be damn sure I’d ultimately recreate the experience in the pasture in a safe way.
9 Likes
Reminds me of this story:
Years ago at the Syracuse NY Coliseum, I watched a QH trail class. The obstacles had gotten tougher over the season and this was State Fair. At the far end of the coliseum the course designer had hung a bears head. Before the horses and riders got to this, they had to pass by fans blowing streamers, crackling ng plastic, things you wouldn’t find out on the trail. The ring steward was a Hunter Jumper fellow and he took a jaundiced view of these proceedings. One by one the horses came in and did the bridge, the mailbox, the rate n slicker, the bear…etc.,etc.
Then a you g girl came in on a small black mare. They did everything well enough, but when they got to the bear the mare looked , snorted and tan as fast as she could back to the in gate. The steward turned to the judge and said, " there’s your winner judge. That’s the horse I want to be on when I come to a bear in the woods".
71 Likes
I’m not against tying the horse safely and letting them figure out that they have to learn to stand quietly. That’s what I’ve done (in crossties) with every single OTTB that I’ve gotten straight from the track. But I was always nearby with eyes on them continually, and made sure there were quick-release snaps in case of a full-blown panic. I’d rather take longer to teach them to stand quietly using safer methods than risk a broken neck or spinal injury.
What I objected to with this guy was leaving tied horses for an hour or more with no one watching them in case they got into trouble. And he used a chain with a clip wrapped around a post, so there was no quick-release option at all if someone did notice the horse getting in trouble.
10 Likes
