Lead landing jumps?

[Clover5]

This has been bugging me for a while. Why is lead landing not more emphasized in jumping disciplines? Obviously this isn’t universal but I see it a lot.

I know at the upper levels and at shows you ride what you have (you can jump a Grand Prix fence on a disunite), but when you’re schooling at home or doing an equitation/hunter class it seems as though it should be taught and encouraged?

Maybe I pay more attention to the lead land because I’ve ridden a few horses with difficult or no lead changes (my pony only started getting them a year ago, and I’ve owned him for six years), so if I miss the lead I’m going to have to ride the counter-canter or trot the change. When I’m jumping I expect myself to lead land after every fence, and if I don’t it’s usually because of a really difficult exercise or a larger-than-normal jump. Either way, I’m always disappointed in myself if I miss the lead land. Even if I’m on a horse who does have a lead change, it’s easier to land on the correct lead than risk missing the change or disuniting before the next fence.

It seems a lot of instructors and judges don’t feel the same way.

I had an eventing instructor who believed that lead changes didn’t matter until they were required in the advanced test for dressage, and that you should just go around on the wrong lead if necessary. I’ve been at Hunter/Jumper barns where all the horses were fancy enough to have perfect lead changes, and the instructors’ attitudes seemed to be that you’ll get the auto-change in the corner, so why ask over the fence? I’ve watched riders who jump 1.30m classes do a simple figure 8 exercise over two small 1.00m fences and fail to get every single lead, changing in the corner, without their instructor ever commenting on it. Why?

(I know and have ridden with instructors who insist on trying to lead land every fence, and there is always a lot for a coach to comment on, but it seems to me that the lead land is often ignored, even at barns with high level riders)

In hunters and equitation I see rounds with lead changes pinning higher than similar rounds that got all their leads. When I watch the Maclay rounds with commentary, the announcers will say ‘oh, she got a little deep to the first fence, that will cost her’ or ‘nice round, but she did the six rather than leaving out, so she’s out of the running’ but they never comment on lead changes due to missing the lead land. Yesterday I watched a hunter round with no less than 3 lead changes, and the score was apparently 95!

Why is a round with a lead change considered better than a round with a very slight long distance or one where they didn’t show a ‘bold enough gallop’ to an oxer (even with a good distance)? It can take a bit of practice to get good at it, but surely it’s not that hard for people? Why don’t people emphasize lead landing as important?

[blondewithchrome]

A lead change isn’t considered a fault in the hunters. If the horse can land on a lead and cleanly swap to the next, it just doesn’t impact score. I have found that many riders cannot effectively and quietly ask for the horse to land the lead without disrupting his beautiful jump or getting in his way. If you interfere so much to make the horse off-balance in the air, it isn’t worth risking the good score. Same thing with the equitation. A good change of lead and landing on the right lead are scored the same. If the rider throws her body to change the lead in the air or her position is weak, that will absolutely hurt a score whereas a good lead change will not.

Trotting a lead change is considered breaking pace and will score a 50. Or 55. If your horse has a clean change and you can jump a course of 8 beautiful jumps, there’s really no need to force a landed lead and risk a rub, a rail, or poor form. That’s my two cents!

[Small_Change]

I agree with blondewithchrome. There is no need to risk compromising the fence (beauty or ability to get over cleanly) when a balanced lead change is absolutely acceptable. If anything, it makes more sense to separate the effort over the fence and the lead change rather than try to get everything done at once.

[RAyers]

I agree with the previous posters. From a pure training and jumping point of view, there is no advantage. It does little to improve the balance an movement of a properly trained horse. I feel that landing a lead is a affectation solely for appearance.

In dressage we train the counter canter long before the lead changes because we want the horse to go balanced in their movement, regardless of direction. The true and counter leads should feel the same in the ring. In the jumpers it is basically the same thing. The horse needs to move balanced, regardless of lead. Hilda Gurney once said, 10 strides of counter canter training is worth 1 stride of true lead training when it comes to teaching balance.

How can I “prove” this? Set a course out on an open 10 acres and spread the fences out (or ride XC) with plenty of room. Now tell me what is the correct lead one should land on?

[Redlei44]

Agree with all of the above. Landing a lead can be a handy tool, like in a jump off, so it’s worth practicing. Jumps on a figure 8, etc. As you say, if you’re riding one without a flying change (esp in the hunter ring), it’s quite handy there as well. But if the horse has a change, then it’s simply not critical. It may be your preference, and a well rounded rider can certainly work on it, but your description of it as a basic best practice doesn’t track with judging realities and it’s not a common philosophy.

[Moneypitt]

Landing leads?

You mean like this 100 score hunter round?

Or?

[twobits]

I have had coaches who specifically coach me NOT to land leads, as it was distracting in the air, and other coaches who have specifically coached me TO land leads to make exercises and difficult turns easier. The first coach focused on hunters, and I was less experienced, riding decently good lead changing horses. The second coach has a broader approach (hunters, jumpers, equitation, eventing), and the horse I typically ride is a bit weak in the change. We completed exercises to school the lead change, but if we were trying to do a specific exercise where a missed change would disrupt the pattern, she expected that I would be capable of landing the leads in a non-disruptive way. I was also older/more experienced when I came along to coach 2.

[Highflyer1]

I find that my horses are more likely to land them in a jumper-type course with tighter turns than in a more spread out, flowing hunter type course but maybe that’s just my riding.

[OnDeck]

Things like distances and pace affect the quality of the jump, therefore they are more important than landing the lead. A well executed lead change is just as technically appropriate as landing the lead.

However, say you turned in the air for a very tight turn but you landed on the wrong lead. Now you have to step out a step and change your track to get the change. Now this is a technical problem and is likely a (small) penalty as it affects the smoothness of the round. Similarly, there will be a deduction if you land on the outside lead in a bending line and it affects your pace, track or straightness in any way.

There will also be a deduction if your horse jumps badly and/or falls in because you are desperately trying to land a lead.

[jonem004]

Wow that was nice to watch. Who is that?

[rockonxox]

Scott Stewart riding Catch Me (it is on the video in text at the top).

[JenEM]

IME, the smart ones figure this out, and that horse has certainly been around enough to know what turn it’s making out of the lines–I don’t think SS is asking, they’re just landing because it knows where it’s going next. But I don’t think a swap in the corner would have distracted from the quality of the round, either.

[Redlei44]

Yes, I guess we’d have to ask the judge to be sure, but theoretically it would still have been a 100 if there was a lead change or two in there as well.

And we’d have to ask SS to be sure, but I bet you’re right that he didn’t specifically ask for a landing lead but also gave the horse such a good, balanced ride that he made it easy for an experienced horse like that to do it.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Catch Me is fabulous and Scott rides him (and others) beautifully (100? but I digress)

My point on his leads in that round is that the horse is experienced and trained and ridden by the best. Some of these hunters and eq horses- it is the slightest ask that signals where he is going. And sometimes it is the imperceptible shift in the rider. I don’t know if Scott is asking in the air, the horse “knows” where he is going- but Scott has produced enough horses that go on to eq kids where counter canter, roll backs etc come in to play that he (an many other top riders) aren’t going to rely on chance for a change .

Just another opinon.

[no.stirrups]

@Clover5 I’ve always wondered this! Thanks for asking. It’s so much more harmonious to watch a round that doesn’t require lead changes between the jumps and I think it does reflect a higher skill level in the rider that can do it.
Re: some of the other responses, if landing the correct lead is practiced there is no reason in the world why it would be disruptive. A slight shift of weight toward the direction of the next turn should be enough.
Reminds me of a horse I used to know at a lesson barn - he would refuse the second jump in a line consistently if the rider failed to indicate the direction they wanted to go upon landing. He required that they turn their head in the line. If they did that, he was a star and if they didn’t it was a guaranteed refusal. At least with the lower level riders. Those with more finesse could be more subtle.

[RHdobes563]

When I competed 40+ years ago, I had no idea how to ask for a lead change (or if my mare actually had one). I found out by accident that the FAINTEST squeeze on a rein over a jump would result in my mare landing on the correct lead (whichever direction) to the next jump. Worked for us.

[greysfordays]

@no.stirrups

Re: some of the other responses, if landing the correct lead is practiced there is no reason in the world why it would be disruptive. A slight shift of weight toward the direction of the next turn should be enough.

We spend a lot of time at home trying to make our horses jump super straight and be as ambidextrous as possible. But at the show, unless I really have to land the lead for a tight turn, I am not interfering with my horse in the air over 1.25m oxer. Nope. We have all this extra adrenaline and buzz, I want zero distractions and total straightness for a clean jumping effort.

I’ve had horses who truly didn’t care what lead they landed on and could do a 13 jump speed round without a single lead change, and others who are just more comfortable landing a certain leading and swapping the next step. At the end of the day, it’s judged on how cleanly you jumped the course. I don’t know if it’s really a matter of skill, I think this is just a case of prioritizing differently.

[Moneypitt]

I thought landing those different leads in that three jump line would be faulted?

I was told no.

[Redlei44]

@Moneypitt

I thought landing those different leads in that three jump line would be faulted?

I was told no.

Yes, landing and holding either lead between the jumps is fine. It would be a major fault if the horse landed and swapped leads in the strides between any of the three jumps.

[Equkelly]

This thread is really interesting to me. I used to ride with a “trainer” who competed in the 60’s and 70’s and then stopped competing all together ever since. Her mindset and training was very much stuck in those times and there were so many things that would make me scratch my head. This was one of them, she didn’t believe in lead changes but talked about landing the lead after the jump. I’ve never heard anyone else think like that so this thread explained why!