Leaning/saddle slipping questions

[RJC]

I wrote out a very long post explaining my predicament, and then realized my questions could be summarized very easily.

If a rider develops a leaning (to the side) problem, will the horse quickly become messed up in a way that OTHER riders without leaning problems will slip sideways (saddle slips sideways) on the horse?

Alternately, if you sit on a horse and feel one side of their back pushing up against your seat, what might be the root cause? (so the horse encourages/causes the lean by providing an uneven surface on which to sit)

I’d love thoughts on this.
Thanks!

[Color_of_Light]

Based on your subtitle…First question: Is the saddle tree too wide for the horse, causing it to slip, and causing the rider to sit crooked? Is one stirrup leather longer than the other, causing the rider to sit crooked (ideally seat still remains centered, it’s just legs are different degrees of bend).

Second question: If not the saddle, why did the rider develop a leaning to the side problem? Injury? Muscle tightness/problems? If so, are they getting treated for the problem?

Third question: Did something happen to the horse to make him uneven, causing the saddle and rider to slip and lean? Injury? Chiropractic problem? Uneven hooves?

I think the answer depends upon what is the cause of the problem. If it’s just the saddle being too wide, that can be easily corrected. If it’s a rider mechanics issue…you say the rider “developed a leaning problem”…how long has the leaning rider has been riding the horse? A non-slipping rider, if well experienced, would not ride leaning but would sit balanced/centered and correct the horse’s habits caused by the leaning rider. They would ask the horse to go inside leg to outside rein, move the rib cage over, get off the inside shoulder, et al.

To answer the third part of your post…the above three things, but also if a rider does not know how to ride inside leg to outside rein and has been riding the horse crooked and incorrect, that could be the cause too.

Hopefully someone else can see it from another angle and has other and/or better ideas than mine.

[sheltona01]

The most common reason for leaning in the saddle are: the rider is unbalanced mostly with weakness somewhere or being unaware. The horse has developed unevenness. Common reason for that are feet, uneven riding or a weakness/lameness. The third reason is your saddle is uneven. That is caused by the horse, rider or how it is stored.

So I will use myself as an example. My horse is 23 and his left hind leg is weaker than his right. It affects his shoulders which means my saddle wants to lean down and to the right in the front. I am also weak on the left side, so I tend to lift up my left seat bone and sit heavier on my right side. For us it is the chicken and the egg question. Do I lean to the right because he is always trying to find ways to not use his left hind or was I just weak on that side? I started riding him when he was 16 and his pattern was already set with the weaker left hind. So when I saddle fit myself, I pretty much am always lifting the front right corner of my saddle because it gets compressed down faster.

I am always trying to ride more balanced and to get him to be even, but he will always try to not use his left hind. So no matter who riders him, they have to deal with that issue. Depending on how good the rider is, is how obvious the issue.

I hope that helps!

[RJC]

[QUOTE=Color of Light;8707685]
Based on your subtitle…First question: Is the saddle tree too wide for the horse, causing it to slip, and causing the rider to sit crooked? Is one stirrup leather longer than the other, causing the rider to sit crooked (ideally seat still remains centered, it’s just legs are different degrees of bend).

Second question: If not the saddle, why did the rider develop a leaning to the side problem? Injury? Muscle tightness/problems? If so, are they getting treated for the problem?

Third question: Did something happen to the horse to make him uneven, causing the saddle and rider to slip and lean? Injury? Chiropractic problem? Uneven hooves?

I think the answer depends upon what is the cause of the problem. If it’s just the saddle being too wide, that can be easily corrected. If it’s a rider mechanics issue…you say the rider “developed a leaning problem”…how long has the leaning rider has been riding the horse? A non-slipping rider, if well experienced, would not ride leaning but would sit balanced/centered and correct the horse’s habits caused by the leaning rider. They would ask the horse to go inside leg to outside rein, move the rib cage over, get off the inside shoulder, et al.

To answer the third part of your post…the above three things, but also if a rider does not know how to ride inside leg to outside rein and has been riding the horse crooked and incorrect, that could be the cause too.

Hopefully someone else can see it from another angle and has other and/or better ideas than mine.[/QUOTE]

This is how my post got really long… this horse has had an extremely complicated (medically) last two years.

In summary (but will still turn into a novel)-

I’ve owned horse for 8 years. She has never had a saddle slipping problem and I’ve never had a leaning problem. Winter of 2014-2015 she was off for an extended period of time due to ulcers caused by hock injections. When I started to bring her back, we had a saddle slipping left problem. Trainer got on horse, commented that it felt like horse’s right side was pushing up into her seat. Saddle fitter adjusted flocking to try and better support the left side while we built muscle. Chiro didn’t see a reason for the saddle slipping.

I’ve been working to correct the unevenness by working on both of our fitness, but progress has been slow due to myriad other issues with horse (sore SI on right side is now not sore anymore, many abscesses have come and gone, hind gut issues are under control). We were doing really well, then the chiro was out and commented that she has become sore on her RIGHT side (saddle slips left) and my saddle fitter can’t get out for a couple weeks. I tried to work on my own evenness by having one mostly walk/little bit of trot ride in a padded bareback pad with a thinline half pad underneath and she was super mega sore afterwards.

Also, other riders have the saddle slipping left problem on her. I have the saddle slipping left problem on other horses.

Stirrup leathers are even, feet are unlikely to be the problem but I know enough to know I could be wrong. I work regularly with a trainer and though I still sometimes lean left (mostly while tracking right and doing a leg yield left), she’s been thrilled with how my horse is going. My last lesson was the day before the chiro said my horse was sore.

I want to fix this without continuing to sore my horse or potentially sore other horses, but I’ve been working at it for a year. The last couple weeks the saddle hasn’t been slipping at all and I thought I made it over the hump, but then she became sore on her right side. So I just don’t know where to go from here.

[Color_of_Light]

I’m sorry to hear that hock injections caused so many problems. Must have been very very painful for your horse. Was there irregularity visible in your horse’s movement following the hock injections?

Sounds like it could be a saddle issue. Maybe the re-flocking to support the saddle shifting left (in other words, uneven flocking…if I understand, more flocking on left? Maybe this is putting more pressure/shifting saddle to the right?), is now making your horse sore? Do you have an evenly flocked saddle available or can you borrow one?

If it was me, I would not have re-flocked the saddle to make it uneven, and I’d want it re-flocked balanced again. But that’s just me. Instead, I’d have used a customizable pad, like the Mattes Correction Pad, where you can add or subtract padding. If your saddle can be re-flocked normal, a customizable pad like this might be something to consider while your horse redevelops.

Have you stood on a stool behind your horse and looked down his/her back to see if there are obvious irregularities? An easy way to chart progress in your horse’s back development is to get one of those flexible curve rulers used to measure tree size. You will also need a large piece of paper. Start by measuring 2" in front of edge of scapula. Trace the curve onto the paper. Then measure your horse’s back every 2" all the way to the loin, tracing onto the paper as you go. Do this tracing every month to chart development and progress.

[Color_of_Light]

@RJC;8707994

Also, other riders have the saddle slipping left problem on her. I have the saddle slipping left problem on other horses.

Prior to hock injections, did your horse have these issues? Did you have these slipping left issues too? If other riders are also slipping left while riding your horse, and if you are slipping left while riding other horses, then there are two separate beings with slipping left issues.

[jaybird660]

People lean or better put, weight one seat bone more for many reasons, some of which are listed above. It can be a vicious circle. The rider can create it or the horse can train the rider into sitting that way, or, the saddle can cause both to have those issues.

I don’t have the slipping problem but do have a horse that makes me want to sit on my right side better and I’m working on engaging the outside hind more with and it helps a lot.

if your horse has developed asymmetry due to time of or subtle hind end issues, that can exacerbate the issue and cause saddle slip. The horse can be hollower in front by the shoulders but also in the loin area. Any of these issues can also cause the saddle to shift back and forth.

You can play with shimming and that should help if it is a little too wide and the right overall shape. If it is too A shaped or angular, it won’t help. It also won’t solve the underlying issues if there is one.

[RJC]

[QUOTE=Color of Light;8708050]
I’m sorry to hear that hock injections caused so many problems. Must have been very very painful for your horse. Was there irregularity visible in your horse’s movement following the hock injections?

Sounds like it could be a saddle issue. Maybe the re-flocking to support the saddle shifting left (in other words, uneven flocking…if I understand, more flocking on left? Maybe this is putting more pressure/shifting saddle to the right?), is now making your horse sore? Do you have an evenly flocked saddle available or can you borrow one?

If it was me, I would not have re-flocked the saddle to make it uneven, and I’d want it re-flocked balanced again. But that’s just me. Instead, I’d have used a customizable pad, like the Mattes Correction Pad, where you can add or subtract padding. If your saddle can be re-flocked normal, a customizable pad like this might be something to consider while your horse redevelops.

Have you stood on a stool behind your horse and looked down his/her back to see if there are obvious irregularities? An easy way to chart progress in your horse’s back development is to get one of those flexible curve rulers used to measure tree size. You will also need a large piece of paper. Start by measuring 2" in front of edge of scapula. Trace the curve onto the paper. Then measure your horse’s back every 2" all the way to the loin, tracing onto the paper as you go. Do this tracing every month to chart development and progress.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for this post. Yes, it was terrible for my poor, good horse. I refer to that winter and The Winter of Misery.

The fitter said she was putting in a little extra flocking in the left whither area for support, but that I should rider with thick shims in the left pockets of my thinline pad for a while, then try with thinner shims and eventually move to no shims and then no halfpad. Since I stopped riding with the half pad at all, the fitter has been out and adjusted the saddle very slightly (this was January 2016), but I wasn’t able to attend the appointment, and I don’t know if the saddle still has the bit of extra flocking on the left. (Though even with the thick shims and extra flocking, the saddle slid if I wasn’t very very conscious of staying balanced while tracking right)

It sounds like measuring her back is a skill I should develop. I’ll look for the curved ruler to purchase and some video demos this weekend. Thanks for the tip.

She’s recently lost a good bit of weight because she was quite fat coming out of winter and the vet and I were worried about her being on grass. It’s possible Her weight loss affected the saddle fit enough that I should be riding in the half pad again.

[RJC]

[QUOTE=Color of Light;8708054]
Prior to hock injections, did your horse have these issues? Did you have these slipping left issues too? If other riders are also slipping left while riding your horse, and if you are slipping left while riding other horses, then there are two separate beings with slipping left issues.[/QUOTE]

Nope. We never had leaning slipping issues. Prior to the Winter of Misery I would receive compliments on my balance, since I would often ride with a very loose girth and the saddle would never budge. The sliding left issue was just present when I started bringing her back into work after time off.