Lease Etiquette?

[sapphiremoon]

Need some thoughts on this scenario:

A potential 2024 lease is discussed in the fall. Horse owner states they will get back to me when they come up with a definitive price and lease agreement. Late December rolls around and no price or contract has been provided. By Dec. 31st I let owner know I am no longer interested in the lease. Owner claims I now owe the lease fee as well as the horse’s January board because we apparently had a verbal agreement, and my change of heart was last minute.

Clearly a miscommunication as I did not consider our brief conversation to be binding when I did not have a price or written contract yet. But is it still typical lease etiquette to have to pay in this scenario?

[LilDunFilly]

No. They said they would give you a price and a contract, then didn’t. Those things they failed to provide would have made a binding agreement.

If I told my trainer “hey, how about an extra lesson sometime?”, they agree, and then we never discuss it again, then why would I pay them?

[Gardenhorse]

Think about it in non-horse terms. If you inquired about renting an apartment and the landlord said that there was an apartment available but never told you the price or sent you a contract, so you told them you were no longer interested, would you think you owed them rent?

[TheJenners]

Oh hell no, I.would laugh my entire way out of that conversation

[Edre]

@sapphiremoon

A potential 2024 lease is discussed in the fall. Horse owner states they will get back to me when they come up with a definitive price and lease agreement. Late December rolls around and no price or contract has been provided.

No. You should not pay in this scenario. Horse owner stated 1. They would get back to you and 2. When they did, there would be definitive price and other details outlined therein

You never had an agreement, verbal or otherwise. Point blank - you agreed to nothing, since no terms, no details, no conditions, no anything, was covered. All of the necessary prerequisites (that protect the horse owner, that protect you, and protect the horse) were not addressed here. There was no contract. You did not have an agreement - you had intent, but the horse owner dropped the ball and you moved on.

[OverandOnward]

Horse people (g) doing business badly. Again.

No disrespect intended, OP, I don’t think you did anything wrong.

They may not have gotten back in touch because in their mind, they erroneously thought that the agreement was in place and the paperwork was incidental and not important to complete in a timely fashion. Not realizing that you couldn’t read their minds as to price and terms, or even know their intent re the lease.

That’s not your problem, of course. But be ready to counter any fake bad news they spread about you. Just tell your side of the story and keep it simple, and let the listener draw their own conclusion (that the other party was in the wrong).

That said, it would have been more professional on your part to have followed up diligently, yourself. If they stay silent, then down to a final email from you “if I haven’t heard from you by Nov. 30th [or Dec. 15th or whenever] then I will assume that we will not have a lease in place for 2024.” It’s not a terrible thing that you didn’t do this. But keeping up communications even though they didn’t would have cleared up a lot of uncertainty.

For the horse owner, ending up on Jan. 1st without the lease they had planned, and having done nothing to acquire a new lease with someone else, they did put themselves into a financially awkward situation of taking of financial care of their horse. Assuming that they did need the lease to help them keep the horse. But that’s on them, of course.

[fivestrideline]

Nope, you’re not obligated to pay. And probably dodged a bullet - I can’t stand doing $$$$ deals with people who can’t get the details sorted or at least communicate in a timely manner. This would be a theme for the entire lease with this person.

“I’m so sorry there seems to have been a misunderstanding. I never received the actual contract and details of the lease, and have not heard from you since X date (or “November” or whenever the last contact was) when we discussed the possibility of leasing, so I moved on. Thank you!”

Something along those lines, and maybe screenshot the texts or any other written communication, just to have. I wouldn’t worry about your reputation, just have a practiced response that’s truthful and polite, and this will blow over.

Good luck finding a new lease!

[endlessclimb]

Absolutely not, you don’t owe.

Have you been riding the horse in the meantime? Maybe you could offer half of December’s board as a peace token, but that is the absolute MAX I would offer, and only if there’s benefit to trying to salvage the relationship/not burn the bridge.

[trubandloki]

@sapphiremoon

Need some thoughts on this scenario:

A potential 2024 lease is discussed in the fall. Horse owner states they will get back to me when they come up with a definitive price and lease agreement. Late December rolls around and no price or contract has been provided. By Dec. 31st I let owner know I am no longer interested in the lease. Owner claims I now owe the lease fee as well as the horse’s January board because we apparently had a verbal agreement, and my change of heart was last minute.

Clearly a miscommunication as I did not consider our brief conversation to be binding when I did not have a price or written contract yet. But is it still typical lease etiquette to have to pay in this scenario?

I agree with everyone else here. It is not very often everyone responding to a thread on COTH agrees.

They are wrong, very wrong. You are not wrong.

Be thankful you are not doing business with them now.

I like this as a response.

@fivestrideline

“I’m so sorry there seems to have been a misunderstanding. I never received the actual contract and details of the lease, and have not heard from you since X date (or “November” or whenever the last contact was) when we discussed the possibility of leasing, so I moved on. Thank you!”

[Snowdenfarm]

She wants you to pay January board PLUS a lease fee of any amount she determines? You definitely dodged a bullet.

[Spudsmyguy]

The audacity of some people never ceases to astound me. If the leaser calls tell them to pound sand.

[Angela_Freda]

The potential lease was to start Jan 2024, so you haven’t been leasing the horse before this?
Have you ridden the horse at all? As a lesson horse?

I agree you really don’t owe anything on a lease to begin in 2024, when we’re four days in and you never signed anything or received what they told you they’d send to firm up commitment.

Are they under 18?
.

[mmeqcenter]

@sapphiremoon

Clearly a miscommunication as I did not consider our brief conversation to be binding when I did not have a price or written contract yet. But is it still typical lease etiquette to have to pay in this scenario?

Not so much a miscommunication as a major lack thereof.

Of course you don’t owe them anything. They never even gave you a price, how could one possibly consider such a conversation to be a verbal agreement?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

This person is essentially trying to charge you a month’s board and lease fee for the privilege of just inquiring about her horse? Never quoted terms or produced a contract yet thinks you agreed to a fee you never even determined you wanted to pay?

This is delusional and gross.

[SillyHorse]

@sapphiremoon

Owner claims I now owe the lease fee as well as the horse’s January board because we apparently had a verbal agreement, and my change of heart was last minute.

Of course you don’t owe anything.

These are the required elements of a contract:

1. Offer - One of the parties made a promise to do or refrain from doing some specified action in the future. (Didn’t happen.)

2. Consideration - Something of value was promised in exchange for the specified action or nonaction. (Didn’t happen.)

3. Acceptance - The offer was accepted unambiguously. (Didn’t happen.)

Owner is nuts. You dodged a big, fat bullet.

[RHdobes563]

“Yeah, Potential Leaser, I have decided that the cost of using Pookey is $10,000 per month plus board of $2,500 per month. So, you owe me that, at least.”

/s

[OverandOnward]

Random guess is that the horse owners have been extremely lax about making sure their horse had a lease on it, and now are in shock that they dropped the ball and suddenly owe a chunk of money to take care of their horse. And hey, it can’t be their fault, can it.

They didn’t think they would be out of pocket – oops.

At this point all they can do to cover their costs is to sell the horse. They didn’t get the lease done (it was their responsibility) and there is no going back and doing it over.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Seriously, the ridiculousness of this is crazy, even by horse world standards. Even if the owner had quoted a fee, the contract would need to be ironed out regarding insurance, who was responsible for what types of vet and farrier expenses, when and if showing would be okay…

I’m surprised this ridiculous person didn’t try to charge the OP for breathing on her horse, or speaking her horse’s name.

[clanter]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

or speaking her horse’s name.

good idea, must trademark our horses’ names

[SillyHorse]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Seriously, the ridiculousness of this is crazy, even by horse world standards.

And that’s saying something!