Leasing and trainer issues - please chime in!

[Artax]

The riding school I started with 5 months ago has taken some pretty interesting tactics with me and I’m curious if anyone else has experienced these challenges. I’m also hoping for your advice since it has been a long time since I have dealt with barn politics … (sigh)

The riding school is a bit overcrowded but well renowned and the trainers are good (although there seems to be a culture or mentality coming from the top of the chain of yelling and military style “do it over and over again” until you get it right).

A few months back, I met with them about buying a horse, they presented a lease to me for one of the school horses. I declined because I was riding her 1-2 times a week already and didn’t plan to show with her bc of her spooky temperament. Her former lessee suddenly ended her 6 month lease of the horse after a bad accident at a big show (horse took a “weird distance” (trainer 1’s choice of words) and crashed into an oxer and the rider got a concussion). My trainer said it was the rider’s fault. Who knows?

As for the tactics and my spooky lease horse… when I requested, my trainer said that she couldn’t teach me 3x a week - I am currently training with her 2x a week - because she and Trainer 1 are in demand for those who are leasing and showing. They also put me on another older school horse at least once a week - I don’t mind riding this other horse, but the way they started pressuring me to lease by switching me to an older lazier horse and shuffling me to another trainer once a week left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I relented and decided to just do what they wanted and began a month to month lease with the horse. In our second and third week she spooked pretty big twice - once approaching a jump towards the end of a lesson (trainer said the horse spooked at her even though she had been there the whole time). In the third week the horse spooked when we were jumping my hardest course yet - at a person standing right outside the ring. We had just come over a vertical and because this mare gets excited when she’s jumping, she was close to a gallop and suddenly jumped to the left, then bucked and bolted. Luckily I didn’t fall off (although I thought for sure I would)… I am still sore from the jolting and my confidence was rattled.

I have seen video of this same horse in a jumper class years ago with her former owner and she did something very similar to what she did with me, and the rider ended up crashing into a jump and getting badly injured.
It’s not that I will avoid riding this horse ever again - although she is very looky and spooks at little things fairly frequently, she is a good horse. However, because of the 2 accidents she has had at horse shows I will never ride that horse in a show - her eyes would be everywhere and I would probably be thrown or worse.

I terminated the lease and just want to take my lessons now.

Is there hope for a horse that spooks like this? She is very powerful and loves to run at the jumps and dodge to one side suddenly and unpredictably which gets scary sometimes.
Hopefully I won’t have to deal with more barn politics because I terminated the lease.
They have no other school (or privately owned available for lease) horses that they have deemed “appropriate” for me.

Is there hope hope for a riding school like this? Or should I start looking elsewhere?

[paw]

Sounds like, for whatever reason, this school is (no longer?) a good fit for you.

There may be “hope” for the mare, but it sounds as though she needs a different program, at least for awhile. Hard to tell from your description what the problem might be, but since you don’t own the mare, you should just back away slowly.

I’d look around for another barn. There are generally many fish in the sea, and you may be better served by a smaller training program.

Best of luck.

[Edre]

This is a tough situation to be in and is never fun! I’m very sorry that you’re in it.

That said, from what you’ve posted I do not like how it sounds as if they conduct their business. Aggressively pushing a lease that you were able to identify as unsuitable for your needs isn’t how an ethical riding school does business. They clearly aren’t interested in supporting your personal riding goals, as evidenced as the horse they tried to set you up with, and that’s a dealbreaker for me. The entire thing just seems shady and I advise you start shopping for a new school immediately.

That said:
Some horses who are “spooky” can be fixed. It really depends on why the mare is spooky. Because there are other horses that are just predisposed, personality wise, to be spooky/looky and despite best efforts, will never really be “fixed.”

Good luck!

[showy]

I know horses that have that dramatic spook in them for life while others need a different program, more advanced of riders, etc.

I know a horse that would spook at the same thing every single lap around… then take the object away and she would STILL spook at that same spot as if she was looking for the scary object and frightened when she didn’t see it

Sounds like its time for you to find a new ride at a new riding school

[CHT]

I agree with the above.

There is no harm in looking around for other options.

It is odd that they weren’t more keen on your buying horse, unless they are just desperate for a lease for that horse.

Perhaps that mare would prefer dressage…but I wouldn’t make it your problem as you don’t own her. The horse sounds like a liability risk for the barn, and I am surprised the use her in their program.

[Artax]

Thanks all!

I am beginning the process of searching for my own horse, with their assistance. From what I’ve heard from other owners who board at the barn, they take a while and one must be very patient.

I have realized that it is in their best interest (and not mine!) to continue leasing me school horses - they make more $ on a partial lease than on 3 lessons per week.

I supppse this is a rhetorical question - but knowing full well that show jumping is a dangerous sport as it is, doesn’t it fly in the face of logic to continue riding a horse who is spooky?

My trainer said to me after the incident that “riding [this spooky horse] will be a good learning experience” and that once I find my next horse who isn’t spooky, I will be “prepared” when that horse spooks.

[SnicklefritzG]

@Artax: I don’t like what your trainer said to you about how “riding a spooky horse will be a good learning experience”. That is code for “this is the only horse we want to lease to you at the time (for whatever reason” and this is the explanation we are going to use to justify it".

In my opinion, I think you should look for a different program and have someone else find you a horse to buy. I don’t think the things these trainers are doing are 100% honest, and I wouldn’t trust them with a horse purchase.

If several people have been injured in the past by this horse’s antics, why would they have a lesson student continue to ride it and why would they push it as a lease? It’s even worse when they put you on an older, slower horse, thereby indirectly pressuring you to go back to the spooky horse. That’s dirty.

Get rid of these trainers and find someone else for whom safety is paramount.

Edited to add: OP, one doesn’t need to ride spooky horses on purpose in order to get better at sitting that kind of thing. Taking lessons on the longe, working out in the gym appropriately, can help immensely to develop one’s seat. Then when the horse spooks, you don’t go anywhere

[ladyj79]

Run away.

[asterix]

This is bs. I’d look for a new barn. You don’t want these people helping you purchase a horse - you’ll end up with one that needs constant pro rides to keep it rideable for you. Old story, don’t fall for it.

[TheHotSensitiveType]

@Artax

Is there hope for a riding school like this?

No, there is no hope for a riding school that has no interest in your desires or abilities. They pressured you into leasing a horse you didn’t want and now your confidence has been shaken (with cause!!!). Please do not use them to help you find a horse! They do not have anything about you in their mind, they only see $$$.

@Artax

Is there hope for a horse that spooks like this?

Hope is relative. IME, some horses are more reactive than others and with training this can be improved even greatly, but more reactive horses are still reactive to whatever stimulus. I am sure you have met people that are extremely jumpy when they catch something out of the corner of their eye… it is not a hard stretch to believe some horses are like this too.

This mare has let the owner/school/lessoners know that she can’t focus on a course if something distracts her, so why are they forcing her to do this?!? This is not safe for the students or this mare, but as much as it sucks though, she isn’t your problem.

Please keep looking for a different place to ride! Best of luck!

[OverandOnward]

If you value your life and your safety, don’t listen to another word they say, and for heaven’s sake don’t let them “find a horse for you” OR pressure you into leasing OR lesson-riding the horse they choose that is not a good fit for what you want.

Do these people care about you? No. Do they care about your safety and welfare? Do they care about what you want out of riding? Out of lessons, out of showing? No. They care about what they can get you to pay for that they have on the shelf, whether it fits you or not.

What you want and need is not on their radar. They are using you for whatever they can get out of you. They convinced you that you are of less value, so you went along and continued lessons and leasing on a program and horses that were not what you wanted. The way they are treating you is the characteristic of someone who is, at best, manipulative, and at worst, well, much much worse, shall we say. You are wise enough to realize something is wrong - and your instincts are right, it is.

If they said “we know this isn’t the best choice for you, but it’s all we have at the moment while we look for something better” that would be one thing. But instead they are dumping their rejects and leftovers on you, because they have convinced you to believe a line of bs they feed you. You are trusting them as you have a right to trust a trainer/instructor, but they are not living up to that trust.

Everything you report that they say about spooky horse is toxic - to you. They will find some dangerous beast to sell you that no one else wants, that they can make a bundle on by getting into it cheap and convincing you that it’s fancy. In fact, they are already signaling they are on that track by telling you that spooky mare is the kind of horse you’ll be riding when they find you a horse!!! That would be my expectation, based on what you have posted here.

If you talk to them about it they will try to convince you there are no other options. They will try to undermine your confidence in your own ability and discernment.

If you were one of my bff’s, I’d plead with you to never go out to that place again. Don’t talk to them again, just mail a check for whatever you owe on your bill and then forget they exist. Because they are not only behaving like charlatans, they are likely to get you injured while doing it - and then blame you. The same pattern as their explanations for the previous accidents on that mare.

As someone said, when people tell you who they are, believe them.

Find a program with integrity that you will enjoy, that is concerned about your best interests and welfare, and that will treat you fairly. And then enjoy your horse time!

[Scribbler]

I would seriously consider moving on to a smaller program. And if you are an adult or older teen getting lost in a sea of children then find a barn that skews older.

As far as fixing the spooky mare I doubt there is anything you could do if you leased her.

However ridden by a pro or advanced rider who could keep her more between hand and leg she might spook less. She would still be an unreliable jumper.

Lesson horses certainly can learn to spook as an evasion. Growing vision problems can contribute. General chronic pain or discomfort can make a horse less confident. Some people report spookiness as symptom of contagious neurological diseases.

But it is not your problem to diagnose and solve here.

[x]

All horses, even lesson horses, can spook once in a while. But a consistently spooky horse does not belong in a lesson program.

[fordtraktor]

They don’t have a horse available for you to lease that you are comfortable with and can progress on, so go somewhere else. This horse sounds totally inappropriate for you at this point. Actually, it seems like you are dealing with some fear issues so perhaps the lazier school horse IS what you need. You also need a program that is going to help you with that. I do NOT find the “DO IT NOW” trainers to be helpful at all for people who are nervous. In fact they can do a lot of harm. You will do better at a school that moves you back to things you are comfortable with, and lets you get REALLY good at them before you move up on Been there, done that horses. That said, you will progress much slower when it comes to height, etc so don’t be angry they have “demoted” you.

For the horse – It sounds to me like the horse is the kind that you have to keep firmly between your leg and hand and if they are focused on you, they are probably OK. The darting to the side, the spooking – that’s a horse you have to keep together. If you learn to ride that kind of horse, the spook can go away and it will jump, but it is a challenging ride for a lesson horse. It doesn’t sound like you are ready and able to do that or that the riding school is teaching you how to do that successfully. The horse isn’t going to work for you right now.

I don’t think it is unusual for a program to move the occasional riders or the riders not in a program to the assistants. They only have so many hours a day, and the top students get the time of the top trainer. That’s not really politics, IMO. It’s practical.

[findeight]

@Artax

The riding school I started with 5 months ago has taken some pretty interesting tactics with me and I’m curious if anyone else has experienced these challenges. I’m also hoping for your advice since it has been a long time since I have dealt with barn politics … (sigh)

The riding school is a bit overcrowded but well renowned and the trainers are good (although there seems to be a culture or mentality coming from the top of the chain of yelling and military style “do it over and over again” until you get it right).

A few months back, I met with them about buying a horse, they presented a lease to me for one of the school horses. I declined because I was riding her 1-2 times a week already and didn’t plan to show with her bc of her spooky temperament. Her former lessee suddenly ended her 6 month lease of the horse after a bad accident at a big show (horse took a “weird distance” (trainer 1’s choice of words) and crashed into an oxer and the rider got a concussion). My trainer said it was the rider’s fault. Who knows?

As for the tactics and my spooky lease horse… when I requested, my trainer said that she couldn’t teach me 3x a week - I am currently training with her 2x a week - because she and Trainer 1 are in demand for those who are leasing and showing. They also put me on another older school horse at least once a week - I don’t mind riding this other horse, but the way they started pressuring me to lease by switching me to an older lazier horse and shuffling me to another trainer once a week left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I relented and decided to just do what they wanted and began a month to month lease with the horse. In our second and third week she spooked pretty big twice - once approaching a jump towards the end of a lesson (trainer said the horse spooked at her even though she had been there the whole time). In the third week the horse spooked when we were jumping my hardest course yet - at a person standing right outside the ring. We had just come over a vertical and because this mare gets excited when she’s jumping, she was close to a gallop and suddenly jumped to the left, then bucked and bolted. Luckily I didn’t fall off (although I thought for sure I would)… I am still sore from the jolting and my confidence was rattled.

I have seen video of this same horse in a jumper class years ago with her former owner and she did something very similar to what she did with me, and the rider ended up crashing into a jump and getting badly injured.
It’s not that I will avoid riding this horse ever again - although she is very looky and spooks at little things fairly frequently, she is a good horse. However, because of the 2 accidents she has had at horse shows I will never ride that horse in a show - her eyes would be everywhere and I would probably be thrown or worse.

I terminated the lease and just want to take my lessons now.

Is there hope for a horse that spooks like this? She is very powerful and loves to run at the jumps and dodge to one side suddenly and unpredictably which gets scary sometimes.
Hopefully I won’t have to deal with more barn politics because I terminated the lease.
They have no other school (or privately owned available for lease) horses that they have deemed “appropriate” for me.

Is there hope hope for a riding school like this? Or should I start looking elsewhere?

Of all the points brought up here, the one that stands out like a flashing red light is a school horse crashing into an oxer putting their student/client rider into the ER and it’s not the first time. Top that with the trainer bad mouthing the injured client rider to you, another client rider being pitched a lease on that horse. I’m speechless. Almost.

You must understand horses do not just randomly crash into oxers even when badly ridden… It goes against their sense of self preservation to smash into solid fences and oxers knowing it will hurt. For a trainer to put a student on a horse with that history then try to lease it to another client after the first client gets hurt on it is…jaw dropping.

No, you cannot fix this and, no, this horses does not " love running to fences and dodge to one side suddenly and unpredicatably" like a bratty kid with a plan to hurt you. Horses don’t operate that way. This horse does NOT want to jump due to fear and/or pain yet she’s been forced to do it so she tries to run and be done until whatever is hurting gets so bad she slams on the brakes to protect herself. You bet she’s had the snot beaten out of her to the point she’s scared not to go to the fences but scared to jump.

Seen too many horses like this. Their only hope is a complete vet exam including neck and spine, a nice long break followed by a complete restart and probably a career change. Once they get to hate/ fear jumping, it’s hard to undo the damage done by jumping with pain, bad riding and borderline abuse being smacked around in front of too many fences under the guise of an “attitude adjustment” instead of spending the money for vetwork and solving the cause of the issue including the possibility of a career change. Most of these horses are pretty much brain fried.

There is is no way they should be using a horse that totally hates what it’s being asked to do to the point it hurts itself to avoid it as a school or lease horse. No way,

Still having trouble getting past that trainer putting their client on their horse with known problems (and charging them for the privedge) then blaming their client for the trip to the ER and ruining that students confidence for the foreseeable future.

Really expect more out of " trainers" running teaching barns then that. You need to look for a trainer that will keep you safe rather then take your money putting you on a known unsafe, problem horse that’s screaming it doesn’t want to jump.

BTW, let me add experienced horses that spook at people standing around or near fences have often been poled or chased over by a ground person with a lunge whip on a regular basis. Note your spooks were towards the end of your lesson or course- when the horse was trying to tell you they had enough/were hurting. You didn’t listen, Trainer doesn’t care about either you or the horse so horse does what it needs to do to make it stop.

[melula]

I bet they try to talk you into a super nice, although a little green horse that will be great in a couple of years. Just needs a little bit of training.

[HuntinQuarters]

Run, do not walk, away from this program. Do not let them help you buy a horse. Do not collect $200. Unfortunately, some trainers will push inappropriate and/or dangerous horses onto riders just to make a buck. A good program will be concerned with your safety and the horse’s safety first and foremost. While there is something to be gained from a student riding a “challenging” horse as they advance, that needs to be driven by the student and their desire to take on that risk for the sake of advancing. The trainer should not be pushing that on a lesson student, and it doesn’t sound like you are at that point yet anyway.

Having personally dealt with some injuries (including a concussion) that decimated my confidence and created a number of issues that I have had to correct in myself, this program is setting you up for an injury and a serious set-back to your advancement. Although falls and injuries are likely to happen to all riders at some point, there are smart choices that can be made to reduce your risk and good professionals should be helping you reduce those risks.

[lynne]

@Artax

I am beginning the process of searching for my own horse, with their assistance. From what I’ve heard from other owners who board at the barn, they take a while and one must be very patient.

Do these boarders say it took a while because the trainers were picky about finding the right horse, or because the trainers were not proactive/engaged in finding and trying horses? Also, are these boarders happy and successful with the horses they eventually bought? Are they well-matched and achieving their goals?

[Joyrider]

A spooky horse is the best way to ruin confidence even for highly experienced riders. Get off that horse and ride something that is honest and kind at heart.

[SWatson]

Don’t walk, RUN from those trainers. They do not have your best interests at heart!