Hey how are you all? Im new here and i have a question, my daughter has been riding as a jumper for about a year in a half now. We decided to buy a property that has a 20 stall barn with a riding arena, wash racks, tack room, and everything you need to run a training facility or boarding out of. We live in South West Ranches Florida. We were wanting to lease the entire barn with everything but we dont know what a fare price is for leasing out. Any help to be appreciated.
Talk to your realtor. If they did the sale on the barn they may have some insight into the rental values of property in the area.
You can also try asking Google.
Ask your daughters instructor/coach for some leads. Or the owner of the barn where she rides, if it somebody else.
I just looked up your location. That’ usually pretty high dollar real estate land, no?
G.
Tried google not much insight there. My realtor has no idea and i dont want to ask my daughters instructor as its pretty close to where he is at so im sure he will not appreciate me bringing in competition lol… Yes its definitely not a cheap area… The owner of the facility is the one who actually brought me the lead im just not sure what to tell the person interested how much…
Where I live a trainer needs to get a facility at maximum $100 and $200 per stall or they will not be able to make a go of it. Obviously the quality of amenities will push the rent to the lower or higher end. But ultimately it’s the number of stalls that limit the possible income.
Question. You bought a stables. Are you keeping your daughter’s horse there at home, which would be lovely? If so how does that work with the current trainer? Or is this just a holding property and current trainer doesn’t know you own it?
I would think if this was a business investment you’d have potential rental income figured out in advance as part of your mortgage application?
Anyhow, what shape is the property in?
Suggest a number and the prospective renter may counter offer.
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We are in South Florida where land comes at a premium. Its not easy to find acreage in this part of town. I ultimately bought the property so my daughter could do all her riding and training from home. we were driving 45 min a day 6 days week and also paying 1380 a month for boarding and training so we figured just by not having that expense alone would be worth it. The property is in good shape. Just some cleaning up and organizing and it will be perfect. I would be renting out about 16 to 17 stalls as i would like to keep three or four for myself. We were thinking about 250 to 300 a stall. I dont know if that might be too much… And at that price I imagine that would include light and water im not sure how that works.
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Have you already bought this property? Unless you’re very wealthy (which you may be), I’m not understanding how it would have been possible not to have had a point of reference for revenue before making the purchase. Had it previously been leased? If so, what did they charge? If not, I can’t imagine why no one did any kind of mock-up business plan to show how the property could cover its expenses.
$250/$300 per stall is very low…? Who is feeding, cleaning, maintaining riding areas? Does that cover sufficient insurance in case of injuries, accidents, etc?
Since it seems like you are not experienced in barn management - I would try to lease it to a trainer, and let them manage the boarders. Otherwise you need to factor in your time to manage the barn, and that will change the pricing.
Do you know a trainer that would fit that situation? (e.g. will her former trainer be coming to your barn for lessons already?) If so, I would ask them to come look at the space and discuss.
There is a huge amount of liability that you (and the trainer) will have to incur, so one of the first calls I would make is to an insurance agent that specializes in boarding barns. You will need to be sure that however you lease the barn, the price incorporates insurance coverage.
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I was thinking she means $250/$300 is dry stall price per stall to a trainer.Trainer would supply grain/hay/bedding and do all the labor. OP would keep 3-4 stalls for herself/daughter and not lease them to trainer.
OP I agree with S1969 about deciding what services are covered in that price. Will you supply the tractor and drag for ring? Who drags the rings? How often? What property maintenance is done by who? Who fills the water troughs in the fields? Yes you need to talk about liability insurance with an agent for you. You might want to consider an LLC as added protection. Make sure the trainer has the correct insurance such as liability, care/custody/control and make sure you/your farm get named.
You will need a very clear, very detailed contract with the trainer that is drawn up by a good equine lawyer. Don’t forget that every boarder and lesson student/lesson student parent and everyone trying a horse for sale should sign a release protecting you/your farm in addition to one for the trainer.
Consider if you will allow boarders, lesson people or the trainer to bring their dogs? (No, no, no)
You need to decide how you want to charge the trainer for the stalls. Do you want to only receive the price per stall if the trainer is using the stall or she gets use of 16 stalls and pays for 16 stalls every month? It doesn’t matter if she has 8 horses or 16 horses that month you still get paid for the 16 stalls. I believe my trainer has a fee for the year for the use of the facility and 10 stalls. That fee is divided by 12 and that is what she pays per month.
Prices for boarding/dry stall fees are very different in every location and there are a lot of things that can make a difference in pricing of dry stalls. How much turn-out, rings, type of footing, size of stalls, tack room size, bathrooms, how much maintenance does the barn owner(BO) do versus how much the trainer does. Does the BO provide jumps? Does it include electric, water, stall fans, manure removal? Does the trainer do minor maintenance such as replace boards in fields? Does the BO supply the boards? Who cleans the barn bathrooms? Does the trainer have a tack room separate from your daughter’s? Do you allow trailer parking? Do you charge for that? Do you pay for and replace the field gate that her boarder’s horse paws at and destroys while waiting to come in for meals? Or does the trainer? All of this will also need to be in the contract. Don’t forget a damage deposit.
I think you will need to talk to people local to you to determine what is normal to be included in a dry stall rate and what is the normal fee range.
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Then I think $250/300 is pretty high, unless this is a high end barn. Which, it just can’t be, or the OP would have some idea of the revenue for a commercial property.
I think this is actually someone that is trying to decide if it is actually cheaper/easier to buy a horse property and rent it out than to pay for boarding somewhere else.
No one would make this kind of investment without already having some idea of the revenue/expenditure flow unless they were very wealthy. And if they were, they still wouldn’t have bought it without a plan. Or, the plan would have been to keep it to themselves and hire out all the labor. Needless to say, they wouldn’t be here on COTH trying to decide if $250/stall is a reasonable price.
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I would be talking to a real lawyer who understands ranch/farm laws and land lease contracts to make sure my butt was protected (since this is a high value property)
One thing for sure a standard one million dollar liability insurance coverage would not even be thought of, maybe ten million per incident would be closer to the needs as I would want this “Trainer” to carry enough coverage to protect Me to the max of my assets.
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Really? $250-300 seems low to me for dry stalls in a ritzy part of Florida, unless the place is a real dump. When I went to Florida for a month the dry stall rate at an older, slightly run-down barn with no covered arena in Loxahatchee was $500/mo if you stayed for the whole winter (I did not so it was even higher!). That’s seasonal obviously so I’d expect to pay less for a year-round contract but more for a higher-end facility. In my area dry stalls run $250-400 but that’s at fairly average facilities. I know one nicer barn asking $500 per dry stall!
OP, unless you get some spot-on answers here I think you have to ask around locally about what is a reasonable dry stall rate. And think through everything that @SonnysMom mentioned.
It sounds like this is already a done deal but do you know what portion of the $1380 was board and what was training? How many days a week of training? Who will be teaching/training your daughter when she’s home and what will they charge? Are you/she knowledgeable enough to take over full care of her horse(s)? I know that after lessoning for 1.5 years I definitely would not have been.
For whatever it’s worth, I spend $250-300 a month to care for each of my horses at home. That is with a lot of turnout on good grass, which you probably don’t have down there. Plus hay costs are MUCH higher in Florida. That doesn’t include my time/labor either so if you’re paying someone to take care of your horses don’t forget to factor that in. That also doesn’t include water, electricity, property tax, etc, which you should really factor in. And you will have to pay a trainer to come to you unless the one you rent the stalls to happens to be a good fit. At the end of the day I doubt you will be saving any money but hopefully it will be a great experience for your daughter! Good luck.
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Dry stalls can go from $100/mo - $400/mo, in my experience. More commonly on the lower end of that range, but it depends on market, exact services provided, and amenities of the property. OP, that’s research you’ll have to do locally.
Same as trying to price boarding, there are two separate numbers - the price the market will bear due to demand and/or competition for your offering, and price you need to charge in order to at least break even. Do your research carefully!
Also, perhaps the OP is already aware, but these situations can implode spectacularly. Especially if you and/or your daughter are going to ride with the trainer you bring in. Be prepared (legally and emotionally) to evict sooner rather than later when payment stops or relations deteriorate. And do not skimp on putting all the details mentioned above into the contract!
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Winner! :applause:
Just too many unknowns for this to be a serious buyer.
Would anyone really look to buy such a large barn w/o familiarizing themselves with pricing for the area?
Or consider boarding/leasing the place only as a means for daughter - with a whole year of riding Jumpers under her belt - to have horses at home?
And what does “keep three or four for myself” mean? Does OP also ride?
I kinda doubt kid’s present trainer would be threatened by this kind of competition.
And now I have to decide: popcorn or guac?
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Congratulations!
This is. HUGE undertaking …just saying
[B]You will benefit/ survive IF
you hire a *couple of professionals to help you develop a
BUSINESS PLAN …
includes but not limited to … an attorney … an insurance company…a trainer who will not be ‘involved’ in using the facility ”¢ as well as securing a top vet & farrier and grain company & HAY MAN …to ensure the day to day routine continues WHEN things change … and there will be changes !
Good Luck !
Be Smart ! Be Safe ![/B]
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if shopping , there is 20 stall operation that is in Wellington area that is going to be auctioned May 19th to 22nd, starting bid is to be $5.3M
https://www.chronofhorse.com/DirectoryDocuments/6374031586890298.pdf
Maybe I’m thinking of this differently, then. I’m thinking $300/stall for the trainer to pay for monthly, and then they rent them out at a higher price that incorporates the trainer’s insurance, salary, plus amenities - e.g. full care and the trainer does all the work and hires staff. What they can get them for, and what profit is left is really dependent on the amenities. But there isn’t a lot of incentive to run a boarding barn…even if you tripled the stall price it’s not going to be a salary to live on.
But, I’m with clanter. Property in that area is in the millions. This isn’t a real scenario.
I have to agree, if you have that kind of money then why not just buy a farm with a small barn and arena for your own 3 or 4 horses? Leasing out a barn will not pay for your expensive adventure if that’s your line of thinking. Leasing may only be good for the show season, then what? Plenty of barns to lease in South FL at any given time provided you have the money.
Does this place come with a home too that you will live in?
If this is a serious post, then you know you need a good lawyer and a good business plan and all that goes with running a business.
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Well, I am concerned that the OP will find that the costs of buying and maintaining a 20-stall property with an indoor far out-pace the fincancial and time costs of boarding one horse, but, if cost is not the driving factor, I am all for buying the dream! OP, I worry that you are in over your head, though, so I would get yourself a very, very good lawyer experienced in equestrian law and boarding/leasing contracts. Only then start approaching interested parties, because right now, you’re driving blind. You will want to have everything in writing, and it sounds like you would be best off if you had the leasee handle all labor, supplies, routine maintenance, manure management (do you realize how much poop 16 horses produce in a week?) planning for major maintenance (ie, fixing the footing in the rings, sprinkler systems, fencing, painting, parking lot), and carry their own insurance. I think what you want is someone who does all the barn management and hands you a check every month.
No offense intended!!! But the OP presents to me as quite young via their messages — if the OP is actually the daughter trying to put together a plan for her parents to buy a horse farm, the OP should know that lots of us have or had similar dreams, and it’s totally OK to be honest about one’s age, situation, etc. But if I’m mistaken, apologies!!
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Likely you’ll look to charge others close to what you’re paying now. Same basic market, same basic amenities, same basic uses. This may or may not be economically viable, depending on what you paid. Figure out your costs of ownership (all of them), add a modest profit, divide by 17, and that’s the monthly rent. Or, if you wish, consider the three stalls you retain and some help from the tenant in keeping your animals to be your profit. If the market will bear it then you’re in business. If it won’t then you’ll lose money.
G.
Ok lets clarify everything here… I purchased the property and yes it has a house on the property that we will be living in. Im not trying to run the barn or anything like that. I simply want to rent out the barn and the facilities to a trainer so they can run their business out of. The place has been a training facility for the last 30 years by the previous owner. We got approached by a trainer that wants to run his business out of there and I was simply trying to see what was a fair price. They would be in charge of everything. The only thing I would need is 3 stalls for my daughters horse and maybe a horse we would want to get in the future.
By having a trainer come in and operate his school out of there the logic is that my daughter would be part of the school there.
