Leasing vs saving for future horse

[fivestrideline]

@candyappy

Somehow we have taken on this mindset of keeping them forever.

Meh he’s not going to cost me all that much if I do retire him - less than a new car payment, anyways.

I’m lucky that only my lack of down payment is holding me back from buying a house- we have the income and credit score for WAY more mortgage than I think anyone should consider as a first home. Though housing prices are flat out ridiculous right now, so who knows.

I agree that I am and have been pouring tens of thousands of dollars into a horse that is still lame and not suitable for my goals anymore - but he has a use as a companion and nephew/niece leadline horse for my future property. If my life was different, I would take advantage of the OTTB program I got him from, and send him back to them to be rehomed. But I do happen to like him as a pet, and he doesn’t eat much anyways

[candyappy]

@fivestrideline

Meh he’s not going to cost me all that much if I do retire him - less than a new car payment, anyways. I’m lucky that only my lack of down payment is holding me back - we have the income and credit score for WAY more mortgage than I think anyone should consider as a first home. Though housing prices are flat out ridiculous right now, so who knows.

I agree that I am and have been pouring tens of thousands of dollars into a horse that is still lame and not suitable for my goals anymore - but he has a use as a companion and nephew/niece leadline horse for my future property. If my life was different, I would take advantage of the OTTB program I got him from, and send him back to them to be rehomed. But I do happen to like him as a pet, and he doesn’t eat much anyways

Well I was just throwing that out there since you can only afford to board one. Hopefully you will get your own place soon and problems are solved. I keep all mine too but I have room and abundant hay!

[rulex]

I agree about being selective about how your limited budget is spent. When I lost my horse unexpectedly after spending a lot on vet bills I had a minimal budget for shopping and needed to save up rather than jump into a lease.

Luckily I was able to find a greenie to put miles on at a minimal cost to me. I did pay to take lessons on said greenie which benefited us both. I also picked up the odd ride on horses when their owners were too busy to ride.

And when opportunities came up to ride schoolmasters I always jumped at the chance to ride them even if it meant paying a lease fee because those opportunities are always worth it to me.

Basically if you are skilled enough, I expect not to pay full rate to ride a horse I’m improving but will gladly pay to ride a horse that’s improving me. But those opportunities come up when your skills are a known entity. Sometimes it takes paying for weekly lessons for those skills to become known by the trainer or others at the barn.

[BatCoach]

So much depends on how much you like your current barn and how strong your horse network is. I ended what was essentially a 6 year free lease on a horse who I loved but had re-occuring lameness issues when we bought a house 2 years ago. I simply could not afford both. So I did the adult thing and chose the mortgage over the horse, knowing I would have to put a giant part of my identity on pause.

I did not have a great barn or horse network, so without my horse I didn’t really have many good non-paid riding opportunities. I had some offers for hacks on friends horses, but its really not the same as riding 6 days a week and being fully involved in my horses care and training (which I love). So I mentally prepared myself to take a few years off of horses and focus on 2 goals so when I got back into riding I would be in a better position : I had to improve my physical fitness and financial health.

I basically went cold turkey, and that sucked, but life has a lot to offer and other activities and life demands came up. The house we bought is in a neighborhood with a feral cat problem, so I got really involved with cat rescue and TnR. I’m having fun going to the gym 3-4 days a week and tracking my lifting progress. I have a lot more time for friends and more importantly, my spouse. I have time and money to travel to see my sick mom. I am finally building a savings account and paying off debt. I had the time to search for a better paying job in a different industry. The list goes on.

I remind myself of all of these reasons when I see ads for lease horses. Will riding 3x a week and trying out a new trainer and commuting to a new barn / new trainer be worth sacrificing my savings? Do I have the bandwidth to try a new trainer and barn ( I was in a real toxic place before… so I’m a little gun shy).

For me - right now the answer is no. I’m looking at this chapter of my life as the ‘building years’ where I’m focusing on bolstering other areas of my life so I’ll have more to give when I am riding again. Its a very personal choice, but it doesn’t make you any less horsey. It makes you a smart adult who is living within her means in a hard economy and an expensive passion!

[lenapesadie]

I think 1 or 2 lessons a week would be my choice. I’d first cut show expenses in the short term and put that money towards a down payment on house and then the next horse.

[dmveventer]

I’ve done both, so I was just speaking from my own experience. I went from riding and showing regularly to just lessoning in college to a 5 year break after graduation. I definitely felt my fitness and ability decline while I was just lessoning, even with extra workouts at home, and it was frustrating to know that I was capable of much more but just couldn’t make it happen. When I got back into half-leasing after the break it really didn’t take that long to get back into riding shape, and I don’t think lessons would have changed that timeline.

There’s also a mental element where for me it was much easier to stop riding entirely and distract myself with other things instead of being stuck constantly wishing I could do more. I also didn’t trust myself not to get sucked into spending more than i wanted to; once you open that door a little bit it’s a very slippery slope! I think if OP was talking about a break of 6-12 months that’d be one thing, but 2-4 years is a long time to feel torn between so many conflicting goals.

[danhelm441]

If I had it to do over again, I would take weekly lessons at the nicest barn I could afford. The going rate for lessons seems to be the same everywhere (where I am, at least), so without having to factor in the cost of boarding a horse, the fancy programs I’m priced out of would suddenly become accessible. From there, I would hang tight for a while with my ear to the ground for a part lease. I would soak up as much knowledge and experience as possible and then make a graceful exit a year or two later to go someplace more affordable and bring along my own horse, maybe even working it out so the trainer could come to me, or trailering in, or meeting up at shows or something like that.

[mika0116]

zipping up my possible flame suit BUT I have a recommendation that I don’t see above. Although @BatCoach mentions it in passing

I know I probably come from a very unique perspective… is it possible for you to just make more money at your day job / change industries or pick up a lucrative side gig?

e.g.bartending x1 a week in a major metro area nets a corporate friend $400+ a week, another friend sells clay earrings on Etsy and works in Tech (LinkedIn) remotely - on weekends she batch makes inventory for 8 hours. She’s at nearly $3k/month of net profit in addition to her job.

In today’s economy (former CPA investment banker, now in tech) - you’re really never going to “save yourself” what you need for multiple large purchases - house, horse, etc. without increasing your or your SOs, income.

In my 10 years of professional, corporate work experience, my annual income is 5x my original annual income. Sometimes I’d take jobs to learn a lot, make serious cash, and leave in 18 months to the next role for more income and less effort.

And at least in my peer group (early 30s) that is how one affords those “big purchases”. My day to day living actually is relatively unchanged - I don’t let lifestyle creep detract from my savings.

The economy is not what it was 30 - 20 -10 - even 5 years ago. You don’t make moves like buying houses and luxury sport pets by penny pinching. You’re in your 20s - best riding time and best time to make massive moves in your career to maximize income.

lesson or partial care lease with 0 showing and increase your income for a purchase of a nicer, already going, longer term investment animal capable of what you want to do by your 30th bday

DM me if you want to talk about how to make more $$

[fivestrideline]

I’ve done a few things you’ve listed very recently, actually.

SO is in engineering, here for the fancy job title. His job isn’t his favorite but he’s here to put some time in as “Senior blah blah blah” for the resume.

I just made a job change (I work in logistics), doubled my income, have a fancy title myself, have benefits, and am saving 30% before we even talk horses. Which is why my fun budget is so small.

The cons are we both work set hours in person, and I don’t have a ton of extra time for a side gig. Company pays for education so I’m thinking of finishing some degrees I dropped during covid - bye bye ANY extra time. Not to mention the extreme chronic exhaustion I would love for a doctor to believe me about. But hey! I haven’t done a ton of looking into stuff since I got the new job in January.

[BroncoMo]

I absolutely agree with this. Fall of 2020, I put my one riding horse I keep at home out on lease; all the rest are broodmares. I was headed in to my final two years of a demanding undergrad degree, school was ~1 hour away, and I was maintaining a time-consuming full time job. Plus I knew I had a government-mandated year-long vacation to a desert coming up. I knew I had little to no time to ride him.

Once I graduated, I had about 7 months before leaving for overseas and was hurting bad without being able to ride. So I started lessoning twice a week. It was perfect for me and I got back in to decent riding shape. Sure, I wouldn’t have been able to hop on 6 or 7 a day at my trainer’s place, like I had been able to in the past. But I was in shape enough that if I had wanted to (and had the time to) show, I could have gotten around just fine.

I have always owned a slew of riding-capable horses and never been out a riding horse for so long, so this was new territory to me. But I can definitely see the perks of partial leasing. While I’m all about being hands on in every aspect, there was something sort of convenient and pressure-less about pulling up to the barn, 45 minutes worth of a lesson, take fuzzy wuzzy for a walk/graze, give some cookies, and put horse away.

Sorry for the tangent. Lessons twice a week can certainly be enough to keep you where you want to be and can be a pleasant escape from other life demands until the time comes that OP can land her own horse or the made-horse lease.

[mika0116]

I hear you - it is absolutely maddening how much you feel like you have to sacrifice (health, personal time etc.) to afford things in life. 30% is a good “standard” savings rate for retirement etc. If you’re looking to buy property AND a horse, let’s get you to 50%+!

I promise - there is a sweet spot where time / effort is smaller and payout is larger.

For me, that is consulting (LLC or S corp). Talk to someone (mostly listen), give recommendations for strategy, get paid via billable hour rate or have a retainer.

Is there a direct increase to your income potential with these degrees? If there is, finish them via reimbursement with your current job and let’s double your income again by 2025 and make that job remote and moderately flexible maybe you work another time zone to have afternoons/ mornings more free! I work EST from PST.

[HipNo34]

I think I know what you mean.

I started out telling myself that I’d be happy just to get to the barn and be around horses, even just a handful of times each month.

That didn’t last long.

[AAHunterGal]

@furlong47

I would probably go with the second option - lessoning to stay in the saddle, but saving up some money for the next horse. Since this option has you riding less frequently, maybe you could add a little part time work or a gig type job so you can save faster.

I agree with this. Keep yourself in the tack and play the long game!

[Hoofbeat_Heartbeat]

I also agree with taking lessons and saving up. It is possible that once you get your foot in the door somewhere via lessons, opportunities will open up for more saddle time. Before I got my guy, I was taking lessons 1x per week, and eventually opportunities opened up for me to hack other horses in the program, which I took advantage of!

[Foitin]

@fivestrideline

• lesson once or twice a week on some nice 2’-2’6” schoolies at my barn (and save up a little)

Did this for 2 years at a lesson barn, mostly on medium and large ponies after a 20 year hiatus. It was super slow progress, but helped me to get back to WTC and jumping little jumps with a crest release. I think this was definitely better than nothing. I moved to a show barn, leased a saintly, but not very fancy adult hunter and did a season, was kinda rocky, but by the end we were pretty consistent. Bought a handsome scopy but very quirky horse that we found doing the pre-adults. Have to mount it in the stall. Bites. Can’t prep it much. Did a season of the adults with success at the end. This past year, we competed at indoors in the 3’6’’ amateurs, where I had left off now some 24 years ago. I am pretty sure those ponies were essential to my getting back into it. I’m now thinking of selling my horse and going back to lessoning on the ponies again, due to family and professional obligations. And honestly I’m excited at the possibility. I think if you decide to be happy with whatever you’re doing its fine. to ride horses at all is an amazing gift: fake it til you make it, even if you’re jealous of the other riders with nice horses going to 15 shows a year.

[mika0116]

Thisss

As an adult re:rider in a new city my old leasing/show barn would have me hack horses both in their lesson program and eventually some of their sales horses as the years went by. I often lessoned both days of the weekend and would hack or flat school up to 5 other horses in the same day - if my time allowed. My max was 6 rides, including one lesson a day BOTH days of the weekend.

Some folks would ask to be paid… for me, it was a break from my insane work weeks and improved me as a rider tremendously.

Some weeks I’d have close to 12 hours of riding time a week - all completed on Saturdays and Sundays.

[BeeHoney]

This is a great question.

First of all, retire your NQR horse. The return on the investment of extensive vet bills for older or chronically NQR horses (or even horses with behavioral issues) is very poor. It’s a much better decision to just retire that horse.

Secondly, be sure to continue investing in your career and your own earning ability. Always prioritize that over horses.

Thirdly, do not save up for a horse property. If you want to ride, do not sink your $$$ into a horse property. Owning and maintaining a horse property is an endless money pit. It also is a completely separate pastime from riding. If you like just owning horses and taking care of them and seeing them out your window, and you like doing things like mowing and property maintenance, and you also are either independently wealthy or you just really want to spend all your money, then by all means, get a horse property.

Your best option is to continue with a lesson program and pick up catch rides (if you are a good enough rider to do so) while you search for the best lease horse that works with your budget.

Do not stop riding to save up for a horse purchase–you will be ill prepared to ride and enjoy the right horse if it comes along. Do not breed (this is another money pit that is a separate endeavor from riding).

Do not buy a young, unproven horse–bringing along project horses is only a “money saver” if you are bad at math to the point of being delusional.

[fivestrideline]

These are all good points, and I do appreciate the advice!

Mr NQR is getting retired. Well, he’s getting a few more things thrown at him to try to get him leadline/flat trail ride sound. And I’m trying to fix his feet and give him some relief to be more comfortable in turnout. Cause I do like him, even as a pet.

As far as horse property, it’s been a goal for years. Not really in order to ride more, but because I’m picky and like things done a certain way. I can’t do the “program” thing. I have managed large farms and small, lived on horse properties, and am friends with people doing it (and we do love to complain!). I know it’s never what you think, but I’m more realistic and prepared than most. Horses or no horses, we want space and are prepared to maintain it.

Raising a weanling/foal is an experience I want to have. Probably just once - but it isn’t because I think it’ll be easier (or work out better). I do the green horse thing now, and I’m capable and enjoy the process.

Sure, if I viewed the horses as “investments” that I needed a return on (vs hobbies that are an investment in my enjoyment of life), I could be farther along.
If jumping 2’ forever on school horses (a rapidly disappearing thing!) would scratch the itch, I’d have a lot more money.
If I felt that the going rate of ~ $30k/year was fair for a 2’6” lease AND was in an “approved show program”, I would be leasing now. (I don’t, and I’m not.)

I do think you make good points Bee. Especially about balancing horses and life. And I do think you’re right about a lot of things, from a certain point of view for a certain type of person. I also think you don’t get guaranteed tomorrows, so sometimes you have to live a little (in a smart way).

[AskMyAccountant.17]

Or, you could do what I did…

I was three months from paying off my truck/trailer that I’d comfortably made payments on for the prior years, and I took out a loan and bought my horse… It was about 60/40 cash to debt.

I could save 3 years, buy horse who passed away. Or I could have horse now, and pay off over time, w/ at least a liability insurance policy and keep my payments the same. To me, the risk of now or later, I was willing to accept. It was just going to cost me 4.5% more, but I could have my dream horse now.

I don’t know what budget you’re thinking of where four, five >/< budget, but maybe an additional padding that you could pay off in a year would lessen the period you’d have to be horseless…

Just a thought .Not one supported by most, but as an accountant whose now done this, I’ll accept the 4.5% cost added to my horse so I can have him now.

[mika0116]

This is unpopular - but a worthy idea @AskMyAccountant.17!

I will say for OP this is a tricky idea as many mortgage lenders will frown upon this type of debt / it will lower your leverage (your DTI will cap you a lower purchase price for a home because the monthly payment would need to be below a certain level of gross income net debts) in home purchasing. We already know the OP is looking to buy a property as well.

If the OP (buyer) has no other debt or is winding down an existing debt and is willing to replace it with more debt - no student loans, no auto payments, no cc debt - this could be good. But it sounds like they have some debts from their previous posts.

Incurring additional debt will lower what they can borrow and ultimately buy related to a property/land/mortgage - unless they are saving to purchase all cash. If so, they should take out cash from the all cash housing purchase and allocate to buying the horse and wait to save for the house purchase!

At the end of the day, OP needs to decide if house or horse is more important as their income level doesn’t currently support both at the same time - hence i said, easier to make more money than choose between desires or choose to significantly delay a desire

Also 4.5% is a great personal loan rate - wonder if OP has enough credit history without a mortgage in their 20s to garner the same type of rate.

• signed also a CPA (non practicing)