Leaving tails on traditionally docked breeds and showing them in AKC conformation...

[gloriginger]

[QUOTE=lauriep;5898889]
You certainly don’t want to remove ANY dewclaws this late. If you are going to do it, remove them at 2-3 days, when it is a complete non-issue. Usually not even a stitch. But if you wait til spay/neuter age, it IS a big deal with much pain and recovery involved.[/QUOTE]

That’s actually when I had my dogs removed, granted she had a weird underdeveloped one on one leg, and the other was normal, but she was really no worse for the wear. The hardest part was trying to keep vet wrap on her uberhyper little self, which I eventually gave up on. I got her with her dews, tail etc. etc. she was off a working ranch in AZ that was not really into anything, other than keeping one of the more driven males for working the cattle.

[Simkie]

@lauriep;5898889

You certainly don’t want to remove ANY dewclaws this late. If you are going to do it, remove them at 2-3 days, when it is a complete non-issue. Usually not even a stitch. But if you wait til spay/neuter age, it IS a big deal with much pain and recovery involved.

No kidding! I had dewclaws removed when my first dog was spayed–they were loose, and the people who bred her just had no clue that they should have been removed when she was wee–and it was HORRIBLE. SO much better to take care of it a 2-3 days!

[IFG]

[QUOTE=danceronice;5878760]
Side question: What is the purpose of removing the dewclaw?.[/QUOTE]

So they don’t rip them of. Our old Standard Poodle would go hunting and digging in the woods. He was forever coming home with bloody dew claws.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=IFG;5910116]
So they don’t rip them of. Our old Standard Poodle would go hunting and digging in the woods. He was forever coming home with bloody dew claws.[/QUOTE]

Our toy poodle puppy had one tight and one very loose declaws in front.
Being a farm dog, she ran around and got into things and was coming back regularly with them injured, twice needed vet attention.
They were taken off at spaying and I am sure it was considerably more painful than a snip at two days old, before she was neurologically far along enough to remember that second of pain.

That pain after taking them off was less than what she had endured snagging them up to that time, or would have if she had to live with them the rest of her life getting snagged.

The way our vet explained it, some declaws are a bit like you having a big chunk of nail half torn and painful to touch, that you keep snagging on things, no matter how hard to try not to.
Then, other declaws may never cause any trouble.

It is everyone’s choice what to do there, there is no real answer that fit all, unless you have a problem, as we had, then the answer was clear, take them off.

[iechris]

Well today’s dog show observation was that the Kerry Blue breed winner (from the classes, over 2 specials), had what we could only figure was an undocked tail as it was longer than the others and curled over the dog’s back.

[naturalequus]

[QUOTE=lauriep;5898889]
You certainly don’t want to remove ANY dewclaws this late. If you are going to do it, remove them at 2-3 days, when it is a complete non-issue. Usually not even a stitch. But if you wait til spay/neuter age, it IS a big deal with much pain and recovery involved.[/QUOTE]

We’re not all around at 2-3 days It’s definitely a big deal at S/N age but it’s still better - imo - than waiting for them to tear later. Our pup still has her fronts but we had her hinds (DOUBLE, non-articulating) removed when she was spayed. It was certainly a painful procedure for her however she got through it and now we don’t have to worry about them catching and tearing. I did my best to make her as comfortable as possible by wrapping them for longer than we had to so the stitches were protected from rubs (she was obviously more comfortable with them wrapped); I changed the bandage twice a day and applied ointment. Once they were sufficiently healed that rubs were not such a worry, I stopped wrapping, and shortly thereafter (a day or two?) we were able to remove the stitches. If she were mostly a house and city dog, we’d likely have left the rears on, even, but since she’s running through brush and long grass all the time, we felt it best to be safe rather than sorry. My ex recently accounted how my (okay, his now, haha) Dobe x recently caught one of her dewclaws and tore it open (can’t recall whether it was front or back though) - in his truck, of all places :eek: Certainly painful.

[naturalequus]

I haven’t sifted through all 6 pages thoroughly so OP I don’t know if you’ve updated, but I say go for it!

While I certainly LOVE the look of cropping on many breeds, I do feel it’s best for the dog to just leave the ear natural (ie, flopped over it’s better protected from the elements, dust, etc). I’ve been around enough cropped puppies (Great Danes) to know that when the job is done correctly, the puppies do not experience any negative effects (they still have high play drives and act as if there’s no tape or cup on top of their head ;)). However, I’ve always chosen to keep the ears natural. Same follows for the tail - it’s the reason I ended up with a Dobe x. Looked like a Dobe, acted like a Dobe, but had the natural ears and tail that I was looking for (and people did not recognize what she was for this reason - hah!). I’d actually rather at least have the tail left than the ears, though the tail is obviously a much less complicated procedure if done immediately, because I feel using the tail to balance is vital to a dog. I don’t buy into the “but the tail can be broken!” theory - that can happen with ANY breed and ANY dog and there is NO evidence to support such a theory. I’ve seen Marremmas with broken tails, and we’ve owned and cared for BC’s, GS’s, Greyhounds, a Dobe, and many more, mutts included, without ever a broken tail. In fact, I would think if ANY breed is to be a poster child for a potential broken tail, it should be Greyhounds and other like sighthound breeds - yet no one’s docking their tails, even the coursers and you rarely (I’ve never) see a broken tail among them. I’d LOVE to see a broken Dobe or Rottie tail - those things are like little weapons I know it happens… but not sufficiently often to warrant docking an entire breed. Both the Dobe x and our current Rottie x Coonhound pup run through heavy bush ALL THE TIME without narry a problem. Our greyhounds, despite their thin skin, neither had any issues with hematomas or breaks or other injuries to ears or tails. And if fragile tails that seem prone to breaking seem to be common in your kennel, take note and stop breeding those dogs, or avoid purchasing and thus supporting those dogs and lines. I think the argument that a tail should be docked because it might sweep things off the coffee table or because it hurts when it hits you to be equally… :rolleyes: Our Dobe x and now our Rottie x Coonhound both learned to stay away from the coffee table and especially to watch their butts around the coffee table, and also to be careful about hitting people with their tails. If we’re going to start docking for that reason, we should be docking a lot more breeds than we do. Dewclaws I think should be left up to the individual and that dog’s intended purpose, its environment, etc. If at all possible, I think the hinds (especially if they are double and/or non-articulating) should be removed at the earliest possible, and the fronts left. Jmo though. As far as debarking - it’s called exercise and discipline. If your dog is an excessive barker, the band-aid solution is not to de-bark it, it’s to step up and exercise them so they are not frustrated, so that their energy is channeled, and so that they learn to instead engage in healthier behaviours. That’s an owner fail for me, barring some freak exception.

[Bluey]

Well, if you read thru the posts, you will find plenty of stories of tails that had to be amputated after several injuries and not healing.
I know of some myself and our vet talked about them also.

I don’t know in other breeds, but I know that is a problem in danes, practically every dane owner with tails on their dogs sooner or later has a vet call on that, with stories of blood all over the house.

I am not sure other tails, like in dobies, definitively not in greyhounds, are quite like dane’s tails, maybe that is the difference.

Ask your vet, they get to treat injured dog tails.

Talking tails, there is a problem with lab tails, “cold water tail”, where they lose control of their tail for a while, some neurological type problem from overuse, if I remember properly.
I am not sure docking would make any difference on that.

[naturalequus]

[QUOTE=Bluey;5911032]
Well, if you read thru the posts, you will find plenty of stories of tails that had to be amputated after several injuries and not healing.
I know of some myself and our vet talked about them also.[/QUOTE]

There are just as many anecdotes - from experienced breeders and owners, indicating docking to be unnecessary as it pertains to injury and breakage. I never said tails do not sustain injuries, but imo there is still insufficient evidence to support docking based on that dog’s breed as opposed to that dog’s individual needs (which, admittedly, likely will not become clear until past the optimal time period for docking). Like I said, Greyhounds, Salukis, Irish Wolfhounds, just to name a few, should all be poster children for broken tails. Greyhounds especially have THIN skin and THIN wip-like tails. Breeders do not dock them for reason of potential injury, and we even course them in the bush, where they’d be most prone to injury. I’ve spent a lot of time around Danes and while I am sure tail injuries occur there also, I have not seen any propensity for such (in fact, I’ve seen none, despite being around dozens of litters and adults). Their tails really are not thinner than a Greyhound’s or most other breeds and there is no other variation that could explain a tendency for injury or breakage. Again - if certain breeders are experiencing a high number of tail injuries they probably should be more closely examining their stock. People repeat the exact same about Dobes, too, which is bs, imo.

I don’t think docking is cruel, I just feel it’s unnecessary so I avoid docked dogs - I love the tail, myself