Legal ownership and how it works?

[lenapesadie]

I could conceivably register him as a Friesian Heritage Horse. But never bothered when he was a foal and I’m not sure what the protocol would be for registering a 9 yr old gelding with them.

I think a USEF ID would be more practical and less expensive.

He’s 17 plus plain bay though he has some odd “roaning”. Random white hairs over his body (his dam, a chestnut QH) had the same odd white hairs.

Yes exactly; while there’s nothing happening currently that demands any legal proofs of ownership, waiting until such things might be needed is too late! I’d rather be safe than sorry.

[trubandloki]

How do breed registration papers not work? I had to have a signed transfer form from the previous owner to register mine (two different breeds, both required such paperwork).
I do understand with OTTBs that frequently the papers do not go with them, so in that case, clearly the papers do not matter.

[Scribbler]

Registration papers are often left behind with low dollar horses. Sometimes you buy a horse where the papers are back two or three previous owners and it’s too time consuming and expensive to catch up.

Also registration papers typically get signed over after the sale. Not during the sale like a car. So there is a lag period. You could have bought the horse but the papers could still be in a former owners name. They can’t use that to try to reclaim the horse.

Because of all this, bill of sale trumps registration papers for ownership.

[Janet]

@Displaced_Yankee

You can get him a USEF number (annual $95, lifetime $300)

While having the horse registered with USEF does provide another piece of circumstantial evidence of ownership, it is far from proof. The USEF registration form explicitly says “the Federation is not a registry, does not verify legal horse ownership, and does not decide or become involved in ownership disputes.”

[trubandloki]

Very good point @Janet.

Add that if people do not consider breed registration as proof of ownership then I can not see how a USEF number would be proof of ownership, since they do not even require a signed ownership transfer.

[lenapesadie]

Maybe I just need to get the horse branded.

There is a guy that offers branding services. Theoretically, I could invent some sort of branding mark, have horse branded, and register said brand with whatever agency does that sort of thing.

Reckon I can get a brand styled like a My Little Pony?

[Simkie]

@lenapesadie

Theoretically, I could invent some sort of branding mark, have horse branded, and register said brand with whatever agency does that sort of thing.

Depending on the state, it’s often pretty challenging to find a brand that’s not already in use. Not to discourage you, but do investigate what what’s needed to own a brand in your state.

Also, note that brands are registered state by state (by county in Texas) so while you may own the brand in one place, someone else might own it and be using it somewhere else.

[lenapesadie]

That’s good to know. I will be sad if I can’t get hearts and rainbows branded into his butt though

I’m not in any foreseeable need of any of this so it’s nothing urgent. But it’s something to think about just in case.

[Simkie]

So, like… quarter circle over heart?

To give you some ideas, you can poke around in the CA brand book online:

https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/AHFSS/Livestock_ID/2010_Brand_Book.html

(Not that you’re in CA, I don’t know, but it’s one of the brand books that’s available for free out there.)

Hearts are in the “symbols part 1” section. The forward will walk you through the basics.

[lenapesadie]

Yes something like that.

That link was very interesting. I was able to find a similar document for a more local state. Pretty neat really. I can see why branding would be helpful recovering a horse. Easily identifiable by LE and registered with and paid (VIP) to the state. Naturally inter state crimes bring an additional layer of complexity. Branding would be noted and photographed on the Coggins too. Seems like combined the two would be pretty solid.

[candyappy]

@clanter

He said the papers are for an eighteen year old horse, this horse here can not be older than seven.

Was he unable( incompetent) to judge age by teeth? Even if not completely accurate, there should be a undeniable difference in the teeth of a 7 yr old vs a 18 yr old that most of us could see??

[candyappy]

I have one horse who came to me with a micro chip. What is the ballpark to get that done?

[Libby2563]

@candyappy

I have one horse who came to me with a micro chip. What is the ballpark to get that done?

I buy the Home Again microchip on Amazon for $13 and then my vet injects it for free, but he is awesome like that!

[Simkie]

@candyappy

Was he unable( incompetent) to judge age by teeth? Even if not completely accurate, there should be a undeniable difference in the teeth of a 7 yr old vs a 18 yr old that most of us could see??

Lol I had a horse that was eight by his teeth for the entire time I owned him over 10+ years. It was hilarious, I always asked vets to age him. He would have been late teens when he died, at least, based on when I got him. But still eight!

Aging a horse by the mouth is a super inexact deal. Sometimes it can be pretty accurate, but sometimes it’s really definitely not.

[joiedevie99]

@candyappy

What is the ballpark to get that done?

Not expensive. My vet in a super expensive area charges $50.

[Heinz_57]

Yeah, I would not depend on a USEF registration as ownership documentation, because they don’t require any documentation of ownership to register. I know this because I had a lessee who registered MY horse in her name during a short term lease without my permission, and I was the one who had to provide documentation of ownership to put him back in MY name when I later found out.

Not all states inspect brands. Mine does not - they register them, but there are no brand inspections. It could deter someone from acting shady, though, and sometimes it helps identify a horse that has fallen through the cracks. And not all (probably most don’t!) auction houses scan for chips, either.

So, I suppose it depends on what kind of situation you are trying to prevent - theft vs a dispute like the ones described here, loose horse found, horse at auction, etc. I have considered numerous times that I should probably do SOMETHING to my run of the mill chestnut quarter-type pony that doesn’t have any unusual characteristics. I obviously have vet bills, and a bill of sale from when I bought him at the auction - but none of that really has appropriate info to identify one chestnut gelding from another definitively.

[candyappy]

@Libby2563

I buy the Home Again microchip on Amazon for $13 and then my vet injects it for free, but he is awesome like that!

@joiedevie99

Not expensive. My vet in a super expensive area charges $50.

My gelding has that same chip because he came with a membership with “home again” which has expired and they won’t leave me alone. I have plenty of vet receipts, registration papers on 1 and a bill of sale on the other but it might be easier all around to microchip and be done.

[TheDBYC]

There’s now a stolen/missing horse in our area that appears to have arisen out of a possible free lease. I’m distantly acquainted with one of the parties involved, so following the situation closely.