I’ve been following a reported stolen horse situation in South Carolina. On Net Posse, etc. turns out it was a ‘previous’ owner and friend who did remove horse from property not a random theft. Its made me aware that these things do happen. wondered if a good discussion here would enlighten many of how to arrange for your horse to be with someone else for any reason. where you are always protected. This person did love and own this horse but did have an arrangement with friend which I’m assuming wasnt in a contract or on paper but maybe it was. I don’t have the details other than the cluster f…which is all he said she said. Of course I’m curious how it will all end up, but horse was removed from SC and reported stolen and now is coming down to legal ownership I expect. Supposedly mare is in foal and most likely headed to California .
ALWAYS have a written contract.
I think I know of the case you’re referring to - pinto, part Friesian mare. With current horse prices I’m not surprised. So yes, bill of sale is essential, signed and dated by both parties (no disappearing ink). Registration papers are not enough but, that being said, do have them transferred promptly.
Yes, many Horse is Stolen announcements are actually ownership disputes.
Where I live, the police don’t get involved I these cases unless you can prove ownership and if you can’t prove ownership easily then you need to go to court and get a decision and a court order to retrieve the horse.
Proving ownership in some states = brand inspection. If a horse is stolen in these states, the brand board will help you get your horse back. But the brand inspection trumps really all else…it’s an awfully important piece of paperwork to have.
Agreed. Proof of horse ownership is definitely state/local jurisdiction dependent. Here brand inspection/permits trump most everything; however, having a bill-of-sale is often accepted. I ran into a situation where I leased (with written contract) a horse to a family with three young girls. The parents divorced and the ex-husband took off with the horse. Fortunately I was able to track him down and the State (Dept of Ag) confiscated the horse for me. The horse was returned in very sad (horribly underweight) shape but recovered well. Once in good health, I leased the same horse to a gal that worked for me and he was boarded next door. This time the arrangement was perfect right up until my horse crossed the rainbow bridge.
proving ownership …well when I worked with FEMA after Katrina there were hundreds upon hundreds of horses rounded up… and most people could not provide any type of proof of ownership.
We looked first for an ID Chips and for brands or tattoos then it was ?? Calls would come in …Did you find and have a bay mare? Well, yes about three hundred …which if any is yours is questionable
because all of the back story on this one was more ‘he said she said’ I was interested in how/what the consensus was for : Horse on my property. A friend, but no contract (which is my guess in this) and then that goes awry. Seems horse was ‘given’ to her, but I do not know that for sure. she has stated he had not been on property for 2 years and she seemed to feel she had ‘abandonment’ rights. Again!!! I don’t know either party…I’ was of course interested and concerned and wanted to learn more in general of these cases. I know I’ve signed contracts for boarding that involve limitations on back board due and go into lien at a point. But in this case, seemed it was all verbal and I didn’t see where without contract of monies due he wasn’t in his rights to re posess mare. Looking to learn what is going to stick legally for any of us!
A lot of times you see these civil disputes where things weren’t on paper. Often it was some kind of verbal deal between friends, then there’s a falling out or drama, and the police won’t get involved.
Nothing is ever 100%, but these are the things I would do to feel as secure as possible (note, I am not a lawyer)
If buying a horse, always get a bill of sale, one copy for each party, signed by all parties. If you want to be extra official, use a notary. Always have money change hands even if it’s $1. Often the issue is “so-and-so gave me the horse” with no proof of that when they come take it back. If there are papers and you want the papers, make sure you get them at the time of sale (don’t count on getting them later) and that they have any signatures or other needed info to transfer them. Then transfer into your name ASAP. Possession of papers doesn’t prove ownership (the bill of sale does) but the more things you have with your name on them, the better. Take detailed photos of the horse, including any identifying marks, to have on record. On a plain looking horse, these days you can get the horse microchipped or you could still get a personal brand or tattoo done if you really want. A brand is still the most visible as a theft deterrent and also noticeable when looking for a missing horse.
If leasing a horse or leasing out a horse, have a strong written contract including things like standard of care, where the horse is allowed to go, and under what circumstances the contract may be ended. If you’re the one leasing out, include the ability to get updates/check on the horse - and then actually check on the horse.
None of these things prevent a crazy former owner from rolling up with a trailer and driving off with a horse, but they might make it more likely that law enforcement or the courts will work with you or rule in your favor.
I’m interested in this topic simply bc I have a homebred horse. Unregistered and no bill of sale obviously since I bred him. He’s not going anywhere but I’ve often wondered what if anything I could do to have some sort of legal documentation of my ownership.
What will stick is a bill of sale or a lease contract, or other things like brand rights plus paperwork in some states. There is no right of abandonment unless you do the process of getting a lien.
My experience is that in these undocumented situations, possession is everything. Susie legally owns a horse and gives Betty that horse, free lease or giveaway but no paperwork. Susie comes in the middle of the night and takes horse back. When Betty calls the police, they will say it’s a civil dispute, and Betty needs a court ruling in her favor before they will act.
In order to get a court ruling in her favor, Betty needs documentation as to the agreement. If the only paperwork is Susie’s bill of sale when she originally bought the horse, then it’s her horse.
In other words, you need a contract or bill of sale.
I’ve watched this play out with acquaintances who fortunately never went public on social media with their dirty laundry. It’s ugly but generally the original owner has the legal documentation.
i have two homebreds. Microchips, registration papers, vet bills, you could always ask your vet for a notatized statement about length of ownership etc,
I have all of his previous Coggins papers. He isn’t registered. I may look into a microchip!
One quick point re notorization – All a notary’s signature does is warrant that the signatories are, in fact, who they say they are. Not that any signatory possesses the authority to take a particular action.
Ditto! Microchip, Coggins from every year, breed registration papers, USEF/USDF/USHJA registration, FEI passport, vet bills, insurance bills, etc.
And given some of the bizarro things I’ve seen over the years in horse world (think people with multiple aliases, people claiming their horse was sold by someone else on a forged signature without their knowledge, etc) there are times when you may want that.
Yes. That is true. Just don’t depend on it is all I’m saying. A contract can be ripped to shreds on many other points. Locally, there is a case where the horse appears to have been the mount of a someone who was a minor. Either the parent instructed the horse to be sold, the barn owner sold it in response to a lien, or the non-profit from which the horse came took it back into their possession (possibly after a request by the BO to investigate). Minor is now a young adult with a somewhat iffy reputation. First went in after the parent, now after the BO, who maaybe has a slight blemish on their rep but is generally regarded as reasonably honest. I have a sneaking suspicion that the non-profit quietly took back the horse – it was never seen at the auction, etc. All of these people were operating under their real identities.
we have Morgans which are required to provide a DNA sample to obtain the papers, this DNA is kept on record… the blood samples which predated DNA during the 1980s are still kept
Regarding registration papers… we showed our horses expensively… at a Class A our mare won the division, the state vets were there to pull drug samples on the top two placements. So we were escorted from the ring to the stall with a state vet rep who asked for horse’s papers. We handed the vet the paperwork, he looks at the Bay mare, does another inspection and said these papers do not belong to this horse (all bays look alike, so the saying goes). He said the papers are for an eighteen year old horse, this horse here can not be older than seven. So we went back and forth finally having to get the show manager (who knew the horse well) to come to positive identify the horse as the horse on the papers
Some registries require DNA as well.
Many have mentioned registration papers, but it sounds as though you don’t want to (or can’t) register him?
You can get him a USEF number (annual $95, lifetime $300) without being affiliated with any breed or discipline. While many used for qualifying, points, scores, and eligibility, there is no reason that getting a USEF means you HAVE to show USEF shows. (Actually, now that I look, I think you could get his horse ID for $95 once. The ID remains his but if you wish to compete him at USEF shows, you would have to renew each year or get the lifetime recording)
While the details on the USEF form are basic (lets hope he’s not a 14.2, plain bay pony like mine!), it would give him a unique horse ID, list you as owner/breeder, and provide another piece of paper for your paper trail.
I know you said you have no plans to sell, lease, or place him…but just in case others are reading this thread. 
