lepto and lymes vaccines

[NRB]

erm, so I’m casually reading up on how some folks are fearful of or just flat out against giving these vaccines to their dogs. My vet recommends them and I live in Va, tick central. My entire family, dogs, cats and horses get ticks. And Lepto is from deer? right? Or am I totally remembering that all wrong… We got deer in the back yard, as well as parks where I hike.

My 3yo dog has gotten the vaccines and had no ill side effects from them. And soon it will be the new puppies turn to get them. I’m at that hand wringing state. So tell me does your vet recommend these vaccines? Do you get them? why do I worry about this stuff??

[Bacardi1]

Yes, my vet definitely recommends them. (I’m in VA Tick Central too.)

On another thread here a while ago, I mentioned that I was on the fence about the Lyme vaccine because one of my Lyme-vaccinated dogs ended up getting Lyme anyway last year. And now just a couple of weeks ago, another of my dogs (not vaccinated for Lyme) has it, & was EXTREMELY ill for about 10 days before the meds finally kicked in. It was almost touch & go there for awhile. Had a long discussion with the vet about it, & he honestly said that - along with many other vaccines - it works very well for some dogs; not so much for others. BUT - in all cases, if vaccinated & the dog does come down with Lyme, it won’t be as severe as it would be in an unvaccinated dog. And now I believe him. Would NEVER want to go through again what I just went through with “Frankie”. Thank God she’s now on the mend.

I DEFINITELY vote for getting your dogs the Lyme vaccination. Especially since you live in VA. My vet also told me that he’d just received a Health Dept. bulletin re: how VA is having tick-related diseases in both pets & humans at epidemic proportions this year.

[LauraKY]

I wouldn’t vaccinate for Lyme. There have been no long term studies on the new vaccine.

Here’s the other thread:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347800

[vtdobes]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;6361147]
I wouldn’t vaccinate for Lyme. There have been no long term studies on the new vaccine.

Here’s the other thread:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347800[/QUOTE]

Same here. I don’t give the Lepto vaccine either.

[Bacardi1]

I wish the two of you could see how very, VERY sick my unvaccinated-for-Lyme dog currently is. It would break your heart. And yet even though vaccinated, my Coonhound came down with Lyme last year, but only presented with lameness - none of the awful other symptoms that are currently affecting my other unvaccinated dog - high fever, loss of appetite & thirst, salivating to the point where it’s soaking through the bed, panting & fast labored breathing, walking instability in all 4 limbs. Try watching/dealing with that day after day & then knock the vaccine. Unless you’ve seen how debilitating Lyme can be for an unvaccinated dog, don’t go dissing the vaccine. It’s oh so easy to be cavalier when you haven’t gone through the result of not vaccinating.

Plus - neither one of you live in VA, which is currently having a literal epidemic of tick-related diseases this year.

[LauraKY]

I have had Lyme. My daughter had Lyme, my husband, my mother and both my dogs. We were very, very sick (my daughter and I for years). I STILL wouldn’t use the Lyme vaccine until there are long term studies.

I lived in Maryland…right next to a state park. The park was a hot bed of tick borne diseases.

Don’t give me that I can’t know crap. I. do. know. My daughter was on IV meds for two years, paralized on one side at one point. I lost my mother and a good friend to Lyme heartblock. I thought we were going to lose one of the dogs to nephritis. I still won’t vaccinate for Lyme…even if I move back to Maryland.

However, I am a tick nazi. Ticks carry more than Lyme you know. Like anaplasmosis/ehrlichia…with can be worse than Lyme. And in my case, Babesia.

Bacardi, have you tested the very sick dog for anything besides Lyme? A high fever would be very unusual. I’d be testing for some of the other tick borne diseases too or tick borne paralysis. ASAP. If it’s tick borne paralysis, you must find and remove all ticks. Go over every inch of it’s body. If the tick has been removed, it should resolve in 7 days or so.

What does the dogs bloodwork look like? WBC, liver enzymes, platelets.

My problem with the vaccine is that it could cause many of the Lyme symptoms you are attempting to prevent. Are you sure your vaccinated dog had Lyme and not a vaccine reaction? As I said, there are no long term studies.

[vtdobes]

My father & brother had/have Lyme disease.

Also, several friends have dogs that tested positive for Lyme. None had the vaccine. Several had no symptoms and one was slightly lame but nothing other than that.

[LauraKY]

Bacardi…info on co-infections.

http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresources/pdf/en_us/smallanimal/education/tick-borne-disease-case-of-coinfection.pdf

[Bacardi1]

/

Don’t give me that I can’t know crap. I. do. know. My daughter was on IV meds for two years, paralized on one side at one point. I lost my mother and a good friend to Lyme heartblock. I thought we were going to lose one of the dogs to nephritis. I still won’t vaccinate for Lyme…even if I move back to Maryland.

However, I am a tick nazi. Ticks carry more than Lyme you know. Like anaplasmosis/ehrlichia…with can be worse than Lyme. And in my case, Babesia.

Bacardi, have you tested the very sick dog for anything besides Lyme? A high fever would be very unusual. I’d be testing for some of the other tick borne diseases too or tick borne paralysis. ASAP. If it’s tick borne paralysis, you must find and remove all ticks. Go over every inch of it’s body. If the tick has been removed, it should resolve in 7 days or so.

What does the dogs bloodwork look like? WBC, liver enzymes, platelets.

My problem with the vaccine is that it could cause many of the Lyme symptoms you are attempting to prevent. Are you sure you vaccinated dog had Lyme and not a vaccine reaction? As I said, there are no long term studies.

Uh - try reading for comprehension dear. The dog that currently has the serious case of Lyme disease WAS NOT VACCINATED FOR IT. Get it?? And yes, the vaccinated dog who had it was tested twice & had a complete blood workup done. Lyme positive, & the antibiotics had her back up on her merry feet in a few weeks. Gee - do you think it might have been Lyme??? And that possibly the vaccine made her case less severe?? Gee - scratches head. Go figure.

In addition, the currently very-sick dog ALSO had double blood work done. $500 worth by two separate labs. LYME DISEASE. Gee - do ya think it might be Lyme? Do ya maybe think her case is MORE severe because she WASN’T vaccinated. Scratches head. Go figure.

Sorry tootsies, you two can do whatever you want, as can anyone/everyone - I’ll be vaccinating all of my dogs for Lyme from now on. It’s cheap, I’ve yet to have reactions from the two dogs who have had them, & it’s a lot better than what I’m going through right now with poor sick “Frankie”.

The OP asked for opinions, & I’ve given mine. I really don’t see the need for you two to try to beat me down for my saying “give the vaccine”. You’re entitled to your opinion. SO AM I!!!

[Bacardi1]

@LauraKY;6361548

However, I am a tick nazi.

What does the dogs bloodwork look like? WBC, liver enzymes, platelets.

Sweetheart, apart from a minor thyroid issue, dog has across-the-board excellent counts on everything you mention above.

[vtdobes]

[QUOTE=Bacardi1;6361661]
/
I really don’t see the need for you two to try to beat me down for my saying “give the vaccine”. You’re entitled to your opinion. SO AM I!!![/QUOTE]

I don’t believe I “beat you down” for your giving the vaccine did I? I stated my opinion and experiences.

[wendy]

are you sure the “Very sick dog” has lyme? dogs can get MUCH WORSE diseases from ticks than lyme.
Dogs don’t usually get “very sick” from lyme. In fact, most dogs don’t ever exhibit symptoms, or only exhibit a NQR/ mild lameness. Most dogs RAPIDLY recover from lyme after a short course of a very safe antibiotic. Dogs don’t die from lyme.
We don’t know how effective this lyme vaccine is. We do not know if it is safe. There are concerns with lyme vaccines that they may induce serious autoimmune disorders in some recipients.
Therefore, a quick benefit-harms analysis says: WAIT do not vaccinate.
Try to protect your dog against ticks.

Unless you’ve seen how debilitating Lyme can be for an unvaccinated dog, don’t go dissing the vaccine. It’s oh so easy to be cavalier when you haven’t gone through the result of not vaccinating.

well, I have gone through this. All of my dogs have tested positive for Lyme at one point or another. Only one ever seemed sick at all and was the only one ever treated- seemed NQR/ mild fever, a bit sore, tested positive, given antibiotics, recovered instantly. Most people’s dogs in my area all test positive, and very few ever exhibit any symptoms or require treatment. The only dog I’ve ever heard of getting quite ill was an extremely old dog with other health problems. I’ve had other people blame all sorts of weird dog-problems on lyme, but on casual inspection it seemed they were kind of reaching for a scapegoat and decided to blame lyme without any real rationale- I mean, seasonal allergies caused by lyme? obesity caused by lyme? chronic renal failure in an old dog caused by lyme? senility in an old dog caused by lyme? personally kind of doubt it.

Lepto, well, that disease can be nasty, can kill your dog, can cause permanent liver and kidney impairment, and can spread to people from an infected pet. However, the vaccines do not protect against all forms of lepto; the vaccines are know to cause serious reactions in a lot of dogs; the disease is really quite rare; and thus the decision hinges on the “how likely is my dog to get lepto” question. Lepto is carried by rodents. Simply keeping rats and mice under control in your living area is, in general, a much safer tactic than vaccinating your dog. Now, if several dogs come down with lepto in your immediate neighborhood, then vaccination might be your best choice.

[S1969]

My dogs get the Lyme vaccine. We live in a heavily tick-infested area and my vet recommends it. I don’t have the time to research every vaccine or treatment; I rely on my vet to do it for me. Since I trust his judgement (especially given the risk factors in our area), I follow his recommendations. Same for my horses; I don’t feel my internet research is good enough to make decisions about which vaccines to give to my horses so I rely on my equine vet to tell me what I need, based on our area, my horse’s health, etc.

[Long_Spot]

Well, what my vet initially thought was a toxic insult in my dog turned out to be Lepto shutting her kidneys down.

3K of dialysis stuff later, I sure wish my vet in FL had even offered me the Lepto vaccine. Since January I’ve been in dry Colorado, so very likely she has had it since Florida. Also very likely it was was caused my older dogs congestive heart failure earlier this year.

Being that it is very contagious to humans and I have an 8 month old baby in the house, I’d much rather have given them both a relatively cheap vaccine that made them feel punky for a few days.

It has not been a fun experience. Luckily, she is doing really well with the Doxy.

[MsM]

My vet recommends lepto and is on a case-by-case basis on Lyme vaccine.

While we are in a high Lyme Disease area (I had it, my horse had it!) he is not totally convinced of the safety and efficacy of the vaccine to make a blanket recommendation. For my two little couch potatoes who are on Advantix and only have exposure in the small yard or on walks mostly on sidewalks, we didnt feel it was necessary. If they had been dogs who ran through the fields and had more exposure, the benefit/risk ratio would have shifted.
YMMV

[cowboymom]

[QUOTE=Bacardi1;6361702]
Sweetheart, apart from a minor thyroid issue, dog has across-the-board excellent counts on everything you mention above.[/QUOTE]

You are such a little snot.

[Bacardi1]

[QUOTE=cowboymom;6362401]
You are such a little snot.[/QUOTE]

Wow. And you’re both a mature adult & a poet - LOL!!!:lol:

[NRB]

well, I had expected this to be a some what heated topic.

I see both sides. But I can not protect my dogs from tick bites or rats. 5 min in the back yard and we’ll pick up ticks in high tick season… No underbrush nor tall grasses in the back yard. And I’ve ripped all the plantings out, butchered back the azalea bushes to practically nothing and took the boxwoods down to 4 inch high nubs.

I live in a small city and about 1500 feet from a shopping/restaurant area. I have seen rats in my compost bin (stopped composting that day) Currently I suspect that they are under the heat pump. My schnauzers are desperately trying to get at them and I’ve got to buy a stout wire fence to fence around the heat pump so I can set traps and not trap my dogs. I’ve already used w wire garden fence and the dogs have blown through that. No way in ^%$# will I be able to keep my schnauzers off of a rat should they ever dig or flush one out.

I do thank everyone for weighing in with their opinions. My older dog (already vaccinated) is allergic to a commonly used anti-biotic. Metronidazole. One that we used frequently when she was younger for GI issues. But now she can not tolerate it. So I wonder if she would develop similar issues with other anti-biotics. So I do think that for Her, vaccinating now is a safer choice as opposed to not vaccinating and treating the issue with anti-biotics later. But for the little guy. Who knows. I guess I’ll do more research on the vaccines.

[cowboymom]

[QUOTE=Bacardi1;6362433]
Wow. And you’re both a mature adult & a poet - LOL!!!:lol:[/QUOTE]

Poets write with succinctness. You’ve been a pill in another post that I read this week and it’s not impressive. You’re no judge of my maturity based on what you’ve been posting.

[Guin]

@LauraKY;6361147

I wouldn’t vaccinate for Lyme. There have been no long term studies on the new vaccine. Here’s the other thread:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347800

Well, studies or not, I know the vaccine works. I live in the heart of Lyme disease country, Massachusetts. In 12 years I have pulled enough infected deer ticks off my dogs to fill a five-gallon jar. They have never ONCE contracted Lyme. I myself have gotten it twice - from ticks that got on me while I was walking the dogs. My vet, who has been practicing in Massachusetts for close to 30 years, would like to see it made mandatory.

I would never go a year without the Lyme vaccine. Edit: And whoever said that the vaccine causes Lyme is ridiculous. That’s just a paranoid anti-vaxxer statement like saying the flu vaccine “causes” the flu.