My cite is my vet. In 35 years of practice she’s never had any adverse effects and has put many overweight horses on it. And race horse trainers do not put race horses on Thyro-L to stimulate the appetite, they do it because they have a misguided conception that it’s stimulating effects make them run faster.
That wasn’t what I asked. You stated that most IR horses also have low-normal thyroid function. I’m asking for proof of that. I’m not discounting it, it’s just not something I’ve run across, so I’m curious as to the study/research behind it
I’m very aware of its use in overweight horses to help decrease weight (as I’ve stated several time), even in the absence of a low thyroid function. When the weight is so great, that it is the very reason for an increased risk of laminitis, it’s not always possible to get the weight off fast enough with reduced calories and/or increased exercise.
And race horse trainers do not put race horses on Thyro-L to stimulate the appetite, they do it because they have a misguided conception that it’s stimulating effects make them run faster.
Those actually in the racing industry would disagree with you, as they did before. You yourself cited the side effect of polyphagia (increased appetite), which is, as you also stated, a side effect of hyperthyroidsim, which is exactly what is induced when giving Thyro-L to horses with a normal thyroid function.
2 Likes
My horse’s vet and I decided to use Thyro-L on my EPSM type 1 +/- horse a few years ago to temporarily help manage his weight while he was sidelined with a strained tendon. As soon as he had to go on decreased exercise, he had started to plump up and we were worried about insulin resistance.
The Thyro-L took the weight off fast. Probably too fast to be healthy, really. In addition, he lost the ability to regulate his body temperature. Fortunately, this was during the winter and not the summer so overheating was not a concern. However, my formerly ‘sturdy stock’ drafty with his regular winter coat required a mid-weight blanket to be comfortable. Thankfully, it was not an exceptionally cold winter that year.
We had been hoping to avoid insulin resistance but during our early spring check-up he was definitely edging into IR so the Thyro-L did not help in that regard. He was svelte for sure, but IR none the less. Also, he now grows a ridiculous coat every winter. Before the Thyro-L, his winter coat was short but thick. Ever since the winter we had him on the Thyro-L, his winter coat is, robust? Picture a very shiny yak and you’ll have just about pictured my boy.
I wouldn’t say that I wouldn’t use Thyro-L again, if the situation warranted it. It certainly helped manage my boy’s weight while he was on light duty. But there are other supplements that help me manage his weight that I feel are safer. However, it is not something I would give to a horse without a very good reason.
2 Likes
http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/Library/Canthedamagedinsulinresistanthorsebefixed.htm this is a very interesting article on managing IR.
1 Like
VERY Interesting article, thanks so much for sharing! Lots of food for thought there.
[quote="![](yKindaFlower,post:43,topic:448266"]
Picture a very shiny yak and you’ll have just about pictured my boy.
[/quote]
I really did enjoy googling “shiny yak” 
Highly recommend, 10/10, would google again. :lol:
[IMG]http://www.openherd.com/userAlbums/7057/Albums/7952/xl_2017_636276675484275948.jpg)
4 Likes
[quote=“S
[/quote]
:lol:
Well, my guy is a chestnut pinto bean but the hair coat is about right! Probably similar temperaments too. Seriously, now in the winter, when Tucker shakes it takes an extra second or so for all that hair to stop moving. His farrier was a bit awestruck by the sheer amount of hair the first year he grew that coat. And, given the fact that he’s on a high fat diet, well shiny, and yak really do fit. He could be on a the cover of a romance novel w/ that coat! But come spring…:eek: It takes forever to curry all that off and I end up looking like a decidedly unshiny yak!
For what it’s worth, my guy gets about a pound of Timothy Balance cubes w/ a vit/min supplement as his ‘grain’ along with about 30 to 40 pounds of low NSC hay per day. That’s in addition to three cups of oil and a cup of Omega Horseshine. His hay is always fed in slow feed nets because he can snarf down an alarming amount of hay in only a few minutes if he doesn’t have to put some work into it. He gets about an hour a day on grass w/ a Greenguard grazing muzzle too. Resvantage has helped a lot w/ helping to maintain a steady weight, even when the footing or weather impacts his activity levels and it has helped w/ keeping his blood levels within healthy ranges. That’s not a cheap supplement though - especially as he gets a double dose.
JB, there are no documented thyroid problems in TBs. And the poster who’s barn was on it called it a performance enhancer, which it is not.
What? That wasn’t anything I was talking about. But if, as you state, most IR horses have low/low-normal thyroid function, then given that TBs can be, and have become IR, both the overweight “easy keeper” kind, and the thin “hard keeper” kind, then by your own words, they have documented thyroid issues.
Primary thyroid disfunction is very rare in horses, TB or not.
And the poster who’s barn was on it called it a performance enhancer, which it is not.
Not the discussion point I was talking about, but for the record, I never addressed performance.
2 Likes
My mare is IR - she has been tested and confirmed. I will tell you what I did - and her blood glucose tests regular now, so it DOES work. BTW @Palm Beach, my mare was NOT overweight, although she did show the beginning of the stereotypical cresty neck and a fat pad over her tail dock - those were my hints to test her. I tested for IR (blood glucose), PPID, and thyroid. My vet said PPID was unlikely, but I wanted to know what we were dealing with and address it before it became an issue.
She now gets only tested hay - luckily for me, our regional hay tester also grows and sells hay, so I can either test through them, or buy their tested hay. They have several different types of hay - this year, they have 3 different grass mixes that all test well below 10% NSC. 11% is kind of the threshhold you are looking for for a “safe” hay.
Step one - finding a low NSC hay. Please note, not all orchard grass is low, and just because someone tested their hay 3 years ago, doesn’t mean it is still safe now - hay NSCs change significantly depending on harvest and environmental factors. Teff is generally safe, but my mare will not eat it. Also be aware that any forage mix is probably NOT safe - barley and oat hay are huge no-nos. Wheat hay is usually bad. Rye is usually bad (interestingly, I’ve had rye that was lower then many orchard grass options, I sometimes pick it up for my oldster retired mare who loves it).
Step two - EXERCISE - fitness is crucial. My mare has almost always been fit, so that wasn’t an issue for her, but a regular work program will help.
Step three - supplement support. I have had great help over the years from HorseTech, so I had a custom blend done for my mare, with Chromium, Magnesium (both help the IR horse), Lysine and Amino Acids (they often need this additional support, as they don’t process it as well as the non-IR horse), and Flax seed and Vitamin E (safe fats - with flax adding an anti-inflammatory factor, and E because the IR horse should NOT graze green grass, and green grass is where horses get their E). I also feed her a ration balancer, and since she is in serious work, a low starch feed (I use Purina Wellsolve LS).
Other things to be aware of - IR horses should NOT get glucosamine (it is a glucose based supplement), nor should they get iron supplements. They are more prone to laminintis, so be very cautious with steriods too. And they should not be allowed to graze. But they DO need regular meals - do not starve your IR horse - that just makes their insulin levels even more unstable. I feed my mare at least 3 times daily, sometimes more - she is not a fat horse, so I don’t have to break up the flakes, but it is better to feed small meals frequently.
This program has worked for my IR mare - it may, or may not work for every horse. JB has a deep knowledge of nutrition for horses, and I have picked her brain more then once on this forum to help my mare.
2 Likes
Given that high iron is being implicated in IR issues, less about the high iron itself (though too high is flat out too high), but more the imbalance it causes with copper and zinc, sometimes the very act of supplementing copper and zinc, to bring the ratios into appropriate ranges, can help a lot. I’ve got a friend who has finally been able to get her overweight, cresty mare with some lumpy tailhead deposits, in great weight, after a year or so of balancing the minerals in her diet. There were no more calories to safely reduce. There was no more exercise that could be increased. The fix was yes, adding nutrients to the diet. Not medications, only the “medicine” of food.
5 Likes
[quote="![](yKindaFlower,post:48,topic:448266"]
:lol:
Well, my guy is a chestnut pinto bean but the hair coat is about right!
[/quote]
A PINTO yak?! I love it. Look at how adorable this is :lol: :lol: :lol:
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/564x/55/f3/4b/55f34bc2291badf3bcc33ea0f3aefaee.jpg)
2 Likes
That is a great clarification! And maybe also pay attention to the natural minerals in your local hay/pasture/water. My area is, unfortunately, very high iron…
1 Like
Anecdotally, I used to be the caretaker of a lovely 13hh pony, who had lumpy fat deposits on his neck and tailhead when he came into my life in spite of being at the low end of healthy weight and having a low starch diet and plenty of exercise. I started him on CA Trace at one point (a source of copper and zinc, not iron) and by the end of that summer he was a lot less lumpy and even managed to build a better topline than he’d had before. I wish I had before and after photos.
Not all horses with metabolic issues are fat; not all solutions involve removing (vs. adding) components of the diet.
Thanks for the good reminder to watch out for excess iron.
1 Like
The forage and water at my boarding barn are very high in iron: water is not potable for humans…Predictably, my mare tests high in iron, but has been on copper and zinc supplementation for four years, along with the magnesium.
Unless I move her, this is going to continue to be an issue. Luckily, her feet are great!
Simkie, you are the master of yak googling! Shiny yaks - check, pinto yaks, check and check! Love the yaks!! Especially my own yak in a horse-suit. Or horse in a yak-suit. :lol::yes:
Dr. Doolittle, glad to hear your mare is doing well and thanks for starting this thread. I hadn’t heard about the iron, copper, and zinc information and will discuss for my boy w/ his vet. Tucker does have some fat deposits despite being at a healthy weight. Fortunately, like your mare, his feet are great.
