How do you teach your young horse to accept contact, How do you know when you have it, How do you teach someone to understand it and know when they have achieved it.
Seems like it could be a very interesting and informative topic, So what do you say? After all nothing can be truly achieved without the horse accepting a consistent contact.:yes:
young horses learn contact using progressive training… starting with them just wearing a snaffle bridle to lunging, then lunging in side reins loose, then slowly shortening them so the horse can reach to the contact then once the rider is on board you ride forward with a soft following hand… the horse will reach for the bit once he is actively engaging his hind legs under his body. Once this happens the rider needs to just accept the contact given - and work from there.
Turn on the forehand and leg yields are both really great tools to helping the horse understand how to connect itself etc.
Teaching a rider about contact is a different process and the most important thing is learning to have a soft following hand - a hand that does not pull or block.
Slowly I am learning it is not the horse tha learns contact as much as the rider learning how to stay with a horse through contact that is going to move around. Like above says if they learn in side reins then the rider should be able to attempt some resemblence of it first ride but it takes a good hand and arm as well as quick enough leg aids to keep them from falling behind.
I teach both horse and rider by putting them on a curve and asking them to press the horse to the outside of the curve. You will have NOTHING until the horse steps away from your inside leg and carries himself on the outside of the curve.
Occasionally if there appears to be a fly in the ointment I hold the rein from the bridle end at the halt and show the rider what the contact should feel like, and how to interact with the rein with FEEL. I reenact the horse bracing, I reenact the horse accepting, etc. Really amazing what holes in the contact from the rider’s end this reveals, and how many problems simply being given the correct feeling by someone standing on the ground can fix.
As with so many other things. It is the rider who has the problems. 
The correct feel of a good contact is best learned in a schooling situation with a horse that will tolerate a little fumbling until you get it. Many horses will either go above or behind the bit if contact isn’t just right.
It is very simply the horse accepting the very slight weight of the rider’s following, giving hand. For some riders it’s a no-brainer, for others they need to be taught how to “feel”.
Great replies…
I would have thought this would have been an interesting topic.
But anyway, Now here is another question,
The horse is 8, been ridden by several different style of riders, inconsistently, Horse is fine if one rides with a light almost loose contact, Take up the contact and drive the horse forward, he curls behind the bit. At walk and Trot and canter, Using leg and whip to ask him to come forward is resulting in more curling.
What the???
Horse is sound, no back problems, no teeth problems, he is perfectly happy to trail ride and go forward on a loose rein, Take up the contact and behind the verticle he goes.
Sannois, what’s this horse’s background? Sounds like a western pleasure horse, to me 
C
See my previous post.
Horses that curl behind the contact, need to be sent forward strongly but into a very sympathetic, forward and giving hand.
Lateral work, change of hand, circles, and transitions all help with the forward.
Initiate aid (stimulus).
Horse yields to pressure (response).
Rider ceases aid (reward).
Repeat until you die! :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Sannois;6555409]
I would have thought this would have been an interesting topic.
But anyway, Now here is another question,
The horse is 8, been ridden by several different style of riders, inconsistently, Horse is fine if one rides with a light almost loose contact, Take up the contact and drive the horse forward, he curls behind the bit. At walk and Trot and canter, Using leg and whip to ask him to come forward is resulting in more curling.
What the???
Horse is sound, no back problems, no teeth problems, he is perfectly happy to trail ride and go forward on a loose rein, Take up the contact and behind the verticle he goes.[/QUOTE]
I have the exact opposite problem. Horse is also 8, only started being ridden consistently from age 5, but since he0s in the lesson program gets ridden by a number of different people. He’s a natural stargazer and will not relax when asked for contact even using just a plain double jointed snaffle.
[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;6554745]
Slowly I am learning it is not the horse tha learns contact as much as the rider learning how to stay with a horse through contact that is going to move around. Like above says if they learn in side reins then the rider should be able to attempt some resemblence of it first ride but it takes a good hand and arm as well as quick enough leg aids to keep them from falling behind.[/QUOTE]
I think the horse learns to accept/carry/chew the bit and the rider learns to feel for and accept the contact being offered-(which changes as training progresses)–in other words the horse offers contact (or not to the extent of its training)-the rider learns to feel for and accepts contact by keeping a light elastic feel of the horses mouth through the reins/bit. My instructor likes to refer to amount of rein tension in the hand as feeling like you are holding a tiny chick in each hand-almost weightless, yet lively, mobile and tension free.
[QUOTE=ccoronios;6555438]
Sannois, what’s this horse’s background? Sounds like a western pleasure horse, to me
C[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. It sounds like my horse about three years ago and he was never trained in WP, nor was he ever ridden in such a way to make him afraid of the bit. He just didn’t release his back. And he is short-coupled enough that he could move forward in a very pretty frame … and never really be “on the bit.” With him, it was a mental thing. Giving up his back is giving his rider control and that just wasn’t on his agenda. Still isn’t on some days.
OP, do exercises that encourage the horse to release his back – SI, SF and LY, then long and low (but not on the forehand). My instructor has me do a kind of TOH off the inside rein and then ask him to step under with his hindquarters in the opposite direction. (Hard to explain … sorry.)
You have get him to free up his shoulders and come through from behind. It takes awhile – at least it did with my horse (and me :p). Because you can’t get a horse to “accept” contact until he knows how to seek it.
Started my now 8 year old a little over a year ago. He knew nothing but how to go down a trail on a loose rein. We started with forward which he was pretty good at already. Long rein and go. Then put in some leg yielding which he did not know how to do. Once we got that down we worked on forward with some contact. Hands up and forgiving, not in my lap(bad habit lol) and flexing elbows with his strides. We just pushed him into the contact with a strong leg. It took a very strong leg in the beginning because he would curl and suck back, even though he felt as if we were forward it was the wrong kind of forward. He was moving out but not really using himself which would make him curl somewhat. It took a strong leg of squeeze and lift with the strides to get him to lift and come up into the contact. It took about 3 months to get him to understand, oh this is what you want, and now it doesn’t take such a strong leg.
[QUOTE=Niennor;6555555]
I have the exact opposite problem. Horse is also 8, only started being ridden consistently from age 5, but since he0s in the lesson program gets ridden by a number of different people. He’s a natural stargazer and will not relax when asked for contact even using just a plain double jointed snaffle.[/QUOTE]
Horses like this can be very difficult because they are defensive. Why should they relax and give, they are only going to stabbed dropped or jerked again. So long as he is that program he will be difficult. Removed from the program, it will take time and patience for him to begin to trust. Shame to use a young horse that way. Much older horses tend, sometimes, maybe, to be more forgiving. Other-wise they can be unholy terrors! :lol:
I think it is an evolving process, as was mentioned. I myself am just really getting the “outside rein” concept and feel. I’ve heard it all my life (but never really taught what it truly meant) and only recently have I been able to realize while schooling that I DO have it and I CAN move my horse there and he will be stable and carry himself forward. It is a new and wonderful feeling. Unfortunately, I think it is hard to teach to most people - I mean, I’ve been riding almost all my life and am only now having the a-ha! moment! :eek::lol: Even harder to teach a horse who has multiple riders who may or (likely) may not know 1) what it is and 2) how to teach it and 3) how to consistently ride that way.
You might have something…
[QUOTE=mp;6555656]
Not necessarily. It sounds like my horse about three years ago and he was never trained in WP, nor was he ever ridden in such a way to make him afraid of the bit. He just didn’t release his back. And he is short-coupled enough that he could move forward in a very pretty frame … and never really be “on the bit.” With him, it was a mental thing. Giving up his back is giving his rider control and that just wasn’t on his agenda. Still isn’t on some days.
OP, do exercises that encourage the horse to release his back – SI, SF and LY, then long and low (but not on the forehand). My instructor has me do a kind of TOH off the inside rein and then ask him to step under with his hindquarters in the opposite direction. (Hard to explain … sorry.)
You have get him to free up his shoulders and come through from behind. It takes awhile – at least it did with my horse (and me :p). Because you can’t get a horse to “accept” contact until he knows how to seek it.[/QUOTE]
He likes to do stretchy circles and will go forward and stretch down, Pick him back up, he curls in and gets behind the leg.
His training has been so inconsistent, and he was ridden quite a bit by owners husband, A team penner. Very heavy in the hands. I put a stop to that over a year ago, but I am riding him more now as owner still is not doing so, and Wow, it is really eye opening. >I understand what you are saying about TOH, I have been doing more leg yielding, spiral in spiral out. The sad thing is on the lunge in side reins, He is a lovely forward mover, At least in Trot. He has a great swinging walk. But he is very stubborn, I have little experience with Warmbloods, I> have always had TBs where forward was never an issue.
He was quite dead to my leg until I started reminding him of the Hot off the leg exercises, Owner has been nagging with her leg and he has tuned her out.
The worst thing about all this is I can ride him, Probably get him going fairly well, But she will not follow through.
[QUOTE=goodpony;6555636]
I think the horse learns to accept/carry/chew the bit and the rider learns to feel for and accept the contact being offered-(which changes as training progresses)–in other words the horse offers contact (or not to the extent of its training)-the rider learns to feel for and accepts contact by keeping a light elastic feel of the horses mouth through the reins/bit. My instructor likes to refer to amount of rein tension in the hand as feeling like you are holding a tiny chick in each hand-almost weightless, yet lively, mobile and tension free.[/QUOTE]
That is connection. Following with contact is the first step and then half halts and such to bring the horse “through”.
At the first step the rider has to not bump the mouth enough to create the abilty to start real conversation.
I tend to think of Contact as what you have when the horse Accepts the bit or “goes on the bit” and shows the beginnings of consistency in the bridle. Connection is what I think of when the horse is “through”–having released all tensions in the poll, jaw, ribcage,back, haunches (as described above). The two seem subtly different things as mentioned above and the levels of communication seems quite different. JMO.
[QUOTE=Sannois;6555409]
Take up the contact and drive the horse forward, he curls behind the bit. At walk and Trot and canter, Using leg and whip to ask him to come forward is resulting in more curling.
…
Take up the contact and behind the verticle he goes.[/QUOTE]
The aids are correct.
The timing and feel with which they are applied is a different story.
“drive the horse into the contact”
is faulty IMO.
first the horse must learn to go forward with whatever contact it takes to get it forward. Then over time you use school figures, leg yields, TOF to teach the horse how to connect itself. The horse must never feel trapped by a heavy hand, and the ride should use whatever following contact allows the horse to be forward.
Remember contact/connection etc is not about the rider pulling the horse onto the bit, but the horse, due to how its body is working, seeks the bit and uses it to help it swing in the back and close the circle of the aids.
This is not easy to do without a well seated rider with a giving hand.
