Let's talk about Arabian/WB crosses

[stripes]

[QUOTE=SportArab;6708140]
This, I believe, is what we should be promoting, both in terms of warmblood crosses and purebreds. Warmbloods (and the crosses, to a lesser degree) have little tolerance for our mistakes, imbalances, lack of skill. Arabians are such people pleasers they are willing to put up with a lot just for the sound of that “good boy.”[/QUOTE]

So true! Just had the best ride on my filly! She’s a total green bean and she tries her heart out every day. Today we decided to ride from the arena back to the barn and even though she was unsure of what was up, she was game to go. Our first little trail ride together

[SportArab]

Glad to hear she’s going well for you. I do find that my warmblood crosses are pretty game for most stuff.

My big fella is great on the trails… fearless. I plan to start jumping with him this year, since that is what he’s always wanted to do anyway. Might even throw him in the SHUS class (maybe he can duplicate, or better, the record of his half brother, the purebred FR Hercules).

[SendenHorse]

IMHO and expereience arabs are harder to get on the bit, but do lateral work very well. Tendency to rush but can collect easily once they sort it out. Might go too deep but like to stretch down long and low…

So the bad traits can be overcome with training and there is a lot to like-- HOWEVER, coming from WBs, QH, TBs one needs a bit of an adjustment. I know my arabs have required that I be in complete balance and organized in my position. feel is critical as well-- don’t hold even a second too long when giving an aid!

So yes, they are a great immature horse and can be very forgiving but the rider has to approach training with a different angle then some other breeds. So they can be easy to ride but hard to ride RIGHT…

I have had a lot of success with my horse but he’s been the most blow to my ego too LOL

[kathy_s]

I have toyed with the idea of crossing my Arab mares with WB stallions for quite some time. Reading through this thread has provided a wealth of information, thank you all. So, my question is where do I start? I know what I would like to improve on both mares and want to consider stallions closer to home (central Texas). I already have breeding plans for 2013 for 1 mare and since the other is a filly and won’t be bred for at least 3 or 4 years, I have time to look around. TIA.

[stripes]

Hi Kathy! Great to see you here and awesome that you may be breeding your lovely mares to WB’s in the future! If you post a pic of the mare you want to breed, it will be very helpful, also her bloodlines. Have you thought about any WB registries? Or are you just going to stick with HA? Which registry you choose will determine the list of stallions and if you’re just going with HA - you’ll have your chose of any of them.

[kathy_s]

[QUOTE=str![](pes;6710332]
Hi Kathy! Great to see you here and awesome that you may be breeding your lovely mares to WB’s in the future! If you post a pic of the mare you want to breed, it will be very helpful, also her bloodlines. Have you thought about any WB registries? Or are you just going to stick with HA? Which registry you choose will determine the list of stallions and if you’re just going with HA - you’ll have your chose of any of them.[/QUOTE]

Hi Tamara! I have been thinking about this for awhile and you have listed things I need to consider. I would like to register both HA and WB. I worked at a Hano farm years ago and feel in love with the breed so was thinking of going in that direction. Here is my mare’s pedigree;

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/flame+el+jahd

And a photo;

[IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p162/railkat1/flame10-2012033copy.jpg)

Thanks for the help!

[stripes]

Pretty girl. Do have a conformation pic of her? Really need to see that in order to see the good and where she needs help. In the meantime I’ll look and see what’s in your neck of the woods

[kathy_s]

[QUOTE=stripes;6710372]
Pretty girl. Do have a conformation pic of her? Really need to see that in order to see the good and where she needs help. In the meantime I’ll look and see what’s in your neck of the woods ;)[/QUOTE]

Of course I don’t have a confo photo of Flame…snort… She’s an Arabian, geezzzz…

JK, I’ll see if I can either find one or take one soon. My HA’s are Hucks Connection V babies that are very scopey movers. This mare is bred for WP and doesn’t move as well off the shoulder. She tends to “throw” her front legs out instead of the bend and reach I prefer.

[SportArab]

She ![](S very pretty, but I agree with Tamara, that we’d need to see a confo pic to get a sense of what might work best. Also you would need to think about which dicipline you’d be wanting the baby to compete in since that would impact the choice of a mate.

Any reason for wanting to choose a stallion close to home?

[QUOTE=kathy s.;6710349]
Hi Tamara! I have been thinking about this for awhile and you have listed things I need to consider. I would like to register both HA and WB. I worked at a Hano farm years ago and feel in love with the breed so was thinking of going in that direction. Here is my mare’s pedigree;

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/flame+el+jahd

And a photo;

[IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p162/railkat1/flame10-2012033copy.jpg)

Thanks for the help![/QUOTE]

[SportArab]

Yes, they definitely need to be coaxed a little more to come on the bit. While they don’t have any issues with go forward (which warmbloods can), they can easily go forward without ever coming into your hands. So it’s a little counterintuitive that you need to be pushing them when they’re actually on the move already. It often takes a lot of leg in the beginning to help them understand what it is you want.

OTOH, they’re very happy for the connection, once you get it. The MR hunter mare I’m retraining is much calmer now that she’s on the bit.

I also agree wth your observation about lateral work. A possible downside, sometimes, is that they can be downright wiggly and hard to keep straight. They tend to be much more limber than the warmbloods I’ve ridden.

The lightness is something I enjoy. And it’s something I’ve had a tough time giving up when riding warmblood crosses. I spend a lot of time trying to teach them to be as light as my Arabs. Interestingly, my sense is that the warmbloods are much more sensitive to seat aids, so if you ride them more off your seat than off your hands and legs you progress much more quickly.

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;6709406]
IMHO and expereience arabs are harder to get on the bit, but do lateral work very well. Tendency to rush but can collect easily once they sort it out. Might go too deep but like to stretch down long and low…

So the bad traits can be overcome with training and there is a lot to like-- HOWEVER, coming from WBs, QH, TBs one needs a bit of an adjustment. I know my arabs have required that I be in complete balance and organized in my position. feel is critical as well-- don’t hold even a second too long when giving an aid!

So yes, they are a great immature horse and can be very forgiving but the rider has to approach training with a different angle then some other breeds. So they can be easy to ride but hard to ride RIGHT…

I have had a lot of success with my horse but he’s been the most blow to my ego too LOL[/QUOTE]

[kathy_s]

[QUOTE=SportArab;6711009]
She IS very pretty, but I agree with Tamara, that we’d need to see a confo pic to get a sense of what might work best. Also you would need to think about which dicipline you’d be wanting the baby to compete in since that would impact the choice of a mate.

Any reason for wanting to choose a stallion close to home?[/QUOTE]

Since I am new to Arab/WB crosses, I would like to see the stallion in person and be able to discuss and learn about what is desired in the SH discipline. I have been breeding long enough to know what is an athletic horse but like anything else about horses, we never learn enough. I will take a good confo photo of my mare this w/e and post it here. I appreciate any and all advice on a good cross for her.

The Hanovarian farm I worked at was located in Conroe, Tx. A gorgeous stallion named Grandwel (spelling?) stood there and his son, Gulf Coast, was well regarded if I remember correctly. I loved Grandwel (sp? sorry) and admired his temperament and movement. The trainer/owner was a jerk to work for but I fell in love with the breed, despite him.

[SendenHorse]

@SportArab;6711024

Yes, they definitely need to be coaxed a little more to come on the bit. While they don’t have any issues with go forward (which warmbloods can), they can easily go forward without ever coming into your hands. So it’s a little counterintuitive that you need to be pushing them when they’re actually on the move already. It often takes a lot of leg in the beginning to help them understand what it is you want.

OTOH, they’re very happy for the connection, once you get it. The MR hunter mare I’m retraining is much calmer now that she’s on the bit.

yes, lots of leg! really an odd conundrum but really helped me once it got sorted out. And agree that they get really SOLID on the bit once they get there…

[Perfect_Pony]

[QUOTE=SportArab;6711024]
Yes, they definitely need to be coaxed a little more to come on the bit. While they don’t have any issues with go forward (which warmbloods can), [/QUOTE]

I assume you are generalizing about purebreds. Lots of half-Arabians are lazy and not at all forward on their own.

[SportArab]

[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;6712826]
I assume you are generalizing about purebreds. Lots of half-Arabians are lazy and not at all forward on their own.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is about purebreds. Virtually impossible to generalize about half Arabians since they can have anything in the other half (Quarter Horse, Warmblood, Saddlebred, etc.) and you never know which traits are going to pop up in that kind of cross.

I’ve seen great variation in disposition in my Arab Warmblood crosses, with some almost as sensitive as a purebred with a lot of go forward and others much more Warmblood-like.

[Sonesta]

[QUOTE=kathy s.;6712466]
Since I am new to Arab/WB crosses, I would like to see the stallion in person and be able to discuss and learn about what is desired in the SH discipline. I have been breeding long enough to know what is an athletic horse but like anything else about horses, we never learn enough. I will take a good confo photo of my mare this w/e and post it here. I appreciate any and all advice on a good cross for her.

The Hanovarian farm I worked at was located in Conroe, Tx. A gorgeous stallion named Grandwel (spelling?) stood there and his son, Gulf Coast, was well regarded if I remember correctly. I loved Grandwel (sp? sorry) and admired his temperament and movement. The trainer/owner was a jerk to work for but I feel in love with the breed, despite him.[/QUOTE]

The stallion’s name was Granduell and he was wonderful.

There seem to be a lot more jumper lines of warmblood stallions in Texas than dressage lines, so it will make a difference as to what direction you want to go. And, of course, what registry.

If you are thinking Hanoverian, then you should know that while they will inspect Arabian mares, they require that they score at least an overall 7.0 in order to be accepted in the breeding books and that is quite a high score (the equivalent of an Elite Mare Candidate), so do take the mare for inspection with them before you finalize your breeding choice - just in case she doesn’t make it and you have to choose another registry. The other main warmblood registries (GOV, ISR/Oldenburg NA and RPSI, etc) don’t require such a high base score so you can likely get her approved with another registry quite easily.

I’ll come back and add a list of the stallions in Texas for you in a bit.

Here are the ones I know about in Texas:

Cabalito in Aubrey, TX www.whitehedgefarm.com

Lord Adonis in San Antonio - no website that I can find

Sontagskind near Austin - www.royalequusfarm.com

Cacique in Houston area - www.horsegateranch.com

Caleb near Waco - at Willow Spring Farm but don’t have website that I can find

Gran Casso in Coupland, TX, Austin area - www.splitmesquitefarm.com

Gulf Rising (he’s a Gulf Coast son that is licensed but has not yet finished his stallion testing) in Houston area - www.bluefoxfarms.com

Sanceo in Houston area (don’t think he’s finished his approval testings) - www.horsegateranch.com

Alesi in Thompson, TX - www.oldeoaksfarm.com

Ameretto D II, Cascani, Justice, Lordship, Mezcalero & Ocordo all near Weatherford at www.octoberhill.com

Nassau in Houston area at www.grandviewfarms.us

And if you are willing to make a short drive north into Oklahoma, you can see quite a lot of very nice stallions at www.silvercreeksporthorses.com and www.avalon-equine.com

[stripes]

[QUOTE=kathy s.;6712466]
Since I am new to Arab/WB crosses, I would like to see the stallion in person and be able to discuss and learn about what is desired in the SH discipline. I have been breeding long enough to know what is an athletic horse but like anything else about horses, we never learn enough. I will take a good confo photo of my mare this w/e and post it here. I appreciate any and all advice on a good cross for her.

The Hanovarian farm I worked at was located in Conroe, Tx. A gorgeous stallion named Grandwel (spelling?) stood there and his son, Gulf Coast, was well regarded if I remember correctly. I loved Grandwel (sp? sorry) and admired his temperament and movement. The trainer/owner was a jerk to work for but I feel in love with the breed, despite him.[/QUOTE]

Kathy, there is no SH discipline in the real world, this just exsists at Arabian shows. Are you wanting to create a Dressage horse or a Jumping horse? There is a big difference when choosing a stallion. Unfortunately TX is doesn’t seem to be a big state for Hanoverians. How close are to OK. Also, if you really want to talk with someone who knows this cross well and has serveral stallions that are very successful with crossing on Arabians send Edgar at Rainbow Equus an email. Rainbow Equus has Pablo, Rubignon, Escudo II & Landkonig that have all been crossed with big success on Arabian mares. High Point in MD has been very successful with their stallions as well, they have Rosenthal & Sinatra Song.

[SportArab]

I agree that you should figure out which dicipline you’d like to aim for before choosing a stallion. While I have tried to breed horses that would excel in both sports, there is no question that the jumper stallions have produced babies that are geared more towards jumping. Same for dressage.

That said, the gelding I got from crossing Amiral (an Olympic dressage horse) on an Arabian mare is doing quite well in eventing as well as dressage. And the mare (shown earlier) by the jumper Budweiser may be the best moving horse I’ve bred and I think she’s got the most potential as a dressage horse.

[netg]

I have a friend with an Arabian stallion she is hoping to show and train enough to aim for WB inspections with him. He is the nicest purebred dressagey Arabian I have been around, even though he’s basically bred for halter. She got him specifically because he had the right kind of movement for sport. Since I personally know nothing about Arab bloodlines, really, here’s his pedigree from an old sales ad (and it’s interesting to see how different he looks now!)
http://www.arabiansites.com/class/aurora/gio/pedigree.html

She has a mare who came from a jumper breeder as a “Hanoverian” with no papers or known lineage. There are rumors who her sire is, but my friend hasn’t been able to track that down. This mare was one of the highest scoring mares at ISR/Old inspections last year despite only being eligible ISR pre-mare book eligible. This is a SUPER nice mare, and I hate that she wasn’t registered, when you can look at her and tell she is very clearly a WB with good breeding to be such a nice horse. Her rumored sire has also sired GP dressage horses, and she has definite dressage movement.

This past weekend, the weanling from that cross was shown in-hand at an Arab show and scored something like an 84%* with one judge and 76% with the other. She won the Amateur half Arabian mares class over mostly nice, adult mares under the higher scoring judge, and I believe was second with the other. Even if a judge tends toward higher scores, clearly she did nicely there, and not just “for a part-Arab.” The other half-Arab foal by the stallion already sold, and may have even been nicer depending on the week. That foal had an AWR dam who was premium at her inspection.
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/155902_4574867084133_2123204183_n.jpg
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/76773_4574867244137_1191523473_n.jpg

I think I will end up liking both foals more than their dams since I prefer lighter types, and the sire is only seeming to add quality and refinement.

*Disclaimer: The owner gave me details but I didn’t write them down and can’t claim 100% correct information here for that reason

[kathy_s]

Thanks for the input everyone. I know more about a nice moving horse than lines focusing on jumping, however I am open to looking at both. I do have to add that the aforementioned mare should be breed to a stallion that excels in dressage given the movement I am looking for.
Sonesta, thanks for the corrected spelling for Granduell. I loved that guy and enjoyed his ‘hello’ nickers every morning. I worked there when Gulf Coast was born and he had a neat personality as well.
I witnessed an inspection there for the first time and have often wondered why other breeds don’t subscribe to that practice. Seems it might reduce trash breeding. JMHO.
Looks I have some work ahead of me.

[stripes]

[QUOTE=netg;6713764]
I have a friend with an Arabian stallion she is hoping to show and train enough to aim for WB inspections with him. He is the nicest purebred dressagey Arabian I have been around, even though he’s basically bred for halter. She got him specifically because he had the right kind of movement for sport. Since I personally know nothing about Arab bloodlines, really, here’s his pedigree from an old sales ad (and it’s interesting to see how different he looks now!)
http://www.arabiansites.com/class/aurora/gio/pedigree.html

She has a mare who came from a jumper breeder as a “Hanoverian” with no papers or known lineage. There are rumors who her sire is, but my friend hasn’t been able to track that down. This mare was one of the highest scoring mares at ISR/Old inspections last year despite only being eligible ISR pre-mare book eligible. This is a SUPER nice mare, and I hate that she wasn’t registered, when you can look at her and tell she is very clearly a WB with good breeding to be such a nice horse. Her rumored sire has also sired GP dressage horses, and she has definite dressage movement.

This past weekend, the weanling from that cross was shown in-hand at an Arab show and scored something like an 84%* with one judge and 76% with the other. She won the Amateur half Arabian mares class over mostly nice, adult mares under the higher scoring judge, and I believe was second with the other. Even if a judge tends toward higher scores, clearly she did nicely there, and not just “for a part-Arab.” The other half-Arab foal by the stallion already sold, and may have even been nicer depending on the week. That foal had an AWR dam who was premium at her inspection.
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/155902_4574867084133_2123204183_n.jpg
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/76773_4574867244137_1191523473_n.jpg

I think I will end up liking both foals more than their dams since I prefer lighter types, and the sire is only seeming to add quality and refinement.

*Disclaimer: The owner gave me details but I didn’t write them down and can’t claim 100% correct information here for that reason[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much for sharing your friend’s beautiful Arabian/WB cross. I love seeing the Arabian on top, as you don’t see this very often due to Arabian stallions nit going thru the inspection process. I have done the cross this way too and love it! I found an amazing moving Arabian stallion, super free in the shoulders and he really come under and lifts his front end from behind - this is truly hard to find.