Let's talk about showing

[Pehsness]

I feel the need to over analyze something today.

I went to one bronze intro show a few years ago. I was very proud of myself, lol, did it all on my own, no coach, no help, just me and the nag.

I really like showing. I like the atmosphere, the challenge, the fun. Of course, it was not nearly as fun doing it 100% alone, but I still like it.

I’ve since found a really good coach and she has helped us immensely. I’ve expressed my interest in showing (again, bronze, intro) and her response has been a bit lackluster. I was kind of expecting an enthusiastic response as it would be a good challenge, test etc, but it was more non-committal. So I suggested perhaps not the first show, but we could aim for June.

I can’t decide if her response was just pragmatic (like we genuinely shouldn’t be going to a show) or personal (like, she doesn’t really like my horse and doesn’t want to be affiliated).

We’re still working on consistency - it is vastly improved, but he still loses rhythm at the trot because my riding is inconsistent. Like I’ll half-halt too hard and he slows down, or I don’t keep him forward enough around the short side. But he’s really found his forward and we’re working lots of transitions so he’s learning to “leap” (not really leap, but you know what I mean) into the trot whereas previously he would shuffle along for a while trying to decide if I really meant trot, or walk, or lope. Eventually he would get the message and go.

But he’s kind, he’s obedient (too obedient, always in tune with me, even if I’m telling him the wrong thing), he’s now more forward, getting more fit… he might not always be 100% connected in the contact and can sometimes be hard’ish to keep straight, or not falling in on the circles, but he’s not running away with me or refusing to go forward.

Does this sound appropriate for bronze level intro?

I’m think I’m having a bout of imposter syndrome. But he’s old, I’m getting old, we really need to sh*t or get off the pot with this, so I’m over this hump when I move on to a next horse.

TIA for indulging me, lol.

[Scribbler]

@Pehsness

I feel the need to over analyze something today.

I went to one bronze intro show a few years ago. I was very proud of myself, lol, did it all on my own, no coach, no help, just me and the nag.

I really like showing. I like the atmosphere, the challenge, the fun. Of course, it was not nearly as fun doing it 100% alone, but I still like it.

I’ve since found a really good coach and she has helped us immensely. I’ve expressed my interest in showing (again, bronze, intro) and her response has been a bit lackluster. I was kind of expecting an enthusiastic response as it would be a good challenge, test etc, but it was more non-committal. So I suggested perhaps not the first show, but we could aim for June.

I can’t decide if her response was just pragmatic (like we genuinely shouldn’t be going to a show) or personal (like, she doesn’t really like my horse and doesn’t want to be affiliated).

We’re still working on consistency - it is vastly improved, but he still loses rhythm at the trot because my riding is inconsistent. Like I’ll half-halt too hard and he slows down, or I don’t keep him forward enough around the short side. But he’s really found his forward and we’re working lots of transitions so he’s learning to “leap” (not really leap, but you know what I mean) into the trot whereas previously he would shuffle along for a while trying to decide if I really meant trot, or walk, or lope. Eventually he would get the message and go.

But he’s kind, he’s obedient (too obedient, always in tune with me, even if I’m telling him the wrong thing), he’s now more forward, getting more fit… he might not always be 100% connected in the contact and can sometimes be hard’ish to keep straight, or not falling in on the circles, but he’s not running away with me or refusing to go forward.

Does this sound appropriate for bronze level intro?

I’m think I’m having a bout of imposter syndrome. But he’s old, I’m getting old, we really need to sh*t or get off the pot with this, so I’m over this hump when I move on to a next horse.

TIA for indulging me, lol.

Ask your coach how she feels. That’s the only way you will know what this particular person thinks about the local show circuit, about you, about the horse.

First however do some research. Do her students show? Can you find her as trainer of record on EC shows? What level are her top students or longest time students competing at? You can go a lot just calling up shows in your region and searching names.

Maybe this trainer does not like showing and doesn’t encourage anyone to show.

Maybe this trainer has a roster of high dollar clients showing PSG and doesn’t think it’s worth showing at Intro.

Maybe this trainer dislikes the venue of the shows you mentioned for real or imaginary reasons.

Maybe this trainer would rather you go to a credible affordable schooling show rather than a recognized Bronze show which is a lot more costly.

Maybe this trainer wants a more consistent ride from you before you compete.

I don’t think you need to automatically assume they are “embarrassed” about you and your horse. But they may have higher standards for competing rather than go out, do your best, and be glad to come home safe and sound. That’s not actually a bad thing. From what you are saying, you are a long ways from laying down a clean pattern let alone finessing the test. Can you ride some test patterns at home with the coach?

Anyhow, you should be able to have clear frank discussions with a coach about your progress and their feelings about local shows and venues, rather than trying to read implications into their remarks. Why not plan a 15 minute chat in their office to discuss all this?

[Pehsness]

Thanks!

I should clarify - it was the coach’s reaction that has me pondering if we are ready to show or not. So that is why I’m asking.

We did have a good chat and she does point out things that would mark us down in a test, so I know where we need to improve. Her students do show at this venue, I think everywhere from training to 2nd. While I’m sure she’s capable of coaching beyond 4th, she doesn’t have students showing at that level. This isn’t a high end show barn by any means.

Can you elaborate on this? “From what you are saying, you are a long ways from laying down a clean pattern let alone finessing the test”. I’m trying to understand what the expectation would be. We can ride a 20 meter circle, halt, extend on the long side, free walk.

Like maybe June is even too ambitious? I’m going to go watch the first show to see what it’s like.

I’ve looked for local schooling shows, but outside of stock horse club shows, I can’t find any. My understanding was that bronze was basically the equivalent to a schooling show, but maybe I have that wrong.

[xQHDQ]

Agree with the above, but also, if you want to show, go for it! Just don’t expect her to help you at the show or trailer you or any of that. Maybe that’s why she’s not so enthusiastic - she’s anticipating giving up her weekend. Maybe she doesn’t understand that you don’t particularly care about the score. Some things you just have to learn by doing, including learning how you and your horse handle the environment, what type of warm-up should you do, etc.

We ride because we love it. If you like showing you should do it. As you said…life is too short.

[kaya842]

Im not familiar with Canada’s levels so wont speak to that portion. I think Scribbler made excellent points on the multitude of other potential reasons she may have been “meh” about you showing that aren’t “you aren’t ready”. She could have even been mildly distracted, tired, or having a long/ bad day on the day you brought it up. As someone who’s trainer/ BO has a teenager and a toddler - there are plenty of outside factors that can change their level of enthusiasm that have 0 to do with you. I do think that most coaches should be amenable to taking anyone to show who wants to so long as it will be a safe and positive experience. I don’t mean they should let the student decide the level they compete at or even the venue necessarily (a bunch of the barn teens would love to go to WEC Ocala but that isn’t reasonable for their level of experience). But trainers who discourage lower level (or any) students from showing are not my kind of people.

[Boomer]

You’ll have to just ask her It will be better in the long run and you won’t have to take ulcer meds because you overanalyzed and dreamed up things that may not be true And you can move ahead with her or look for someone else who can help.

I tried to google “bronze level intro canada” as I’m not sure what level that is comparable to US. I am guessing like intro/training for US.

Your horse doesn’t have to be fancy - if he’s kind and obedient as you stated, focus on riding the most accurate tests you can. Obedient and accurate are important and will still score well.

Showing and getting around/coming home safe is huge in my book. After a couple of “we lived” outtings, I will for sure want to be as competitive as possible, but that’s me. So I would want a trainer who is aligned and can help me and my Friesian X hit those milestones.

[Scribbler]

@Pehsness

Thanks!

I should clarify - it was the coach’s reaction that has me pondering if we are ready to show or not. So that is why I’m asking.

We did have a good chat and she does point out things that would mark us down in a test, so I know where we need to improve. Her students do show at this venue, I think everywhere from training to 2nd. While I’m sure she’s capable of coaching beyond 4th, she doesn’t have students showing at that level. This isn’t a high end show barn by any means.

Can you elaborate on this? “From what you are saying, you are a long ways from laying down a clean pattern let alone finessing the test”. I’m trying to understand what the expectation would be. We can ride a 20 meter circle, halt, extend on the long side, free walk.

Like maybe June is even too ambitious? I’m going to go watch the first show to see what it’s like.

I’ve looked for local schooling shows, but outside of stock horse club shows, I can’t find any. My understanding was that bronze was basically the equivalent to a schooling show, but maybe I have that wrong.

You say in your first post that you can’t always keep him straight, he falls into the circles, you can’t control speed reliably and your contact is iffy. You already know all this. Do you need to pay $$ to get all this written on a score card? Now obviously I haven’t seen you ride so I can’t really say how serious your issues are, just going off what you said in your first post.

Where I live there is a huge difference between an unrated schooling show and an EC Bronze show. They tend to run Bronze and Gold concurrent, and Bronze still requires all the memberships etc.

Whereas there are a couple barns running quality non recognized shows at a much cheaper rate with the same judges. Indeed, these shows can be way more competitive at the lower levels because there are so many more riders.

[Pehsness]

Thanks!

Honestly, it looks like this is the lowest available level locally. I had a thread a few years ago (when I made my probably ill-advised solo foray in to the ring, lol) and I gained a bit of an understanding of the various show options, but the chapters all seem to have folded, or they only offer bronze/silver/gold. I think this local club is as low level as it gets for a dressage show unless I want to drive 2.5 hours.

I’m going to go out and ride some 20m circles on my lunch hour and pretend we’re at a show. See if I would feel embarrassed or not, haha.

And this wasn’t meant to throw shade at the coach in any way. I think she’s amazing. It was just her reaction that gave me pause and made me question if I was being too ambitious trying to get out there this year. Like, if this was the equivalent to taking my QH to a breed show vs a club show, when he’s not breed show material.

[Pehsness]

Thanks!

That’s the problem, I can’t find any unrated schooling shows within a reasonable driving distance, or I’d be all over that.

And yes I do want to pay money to get it written on a score card, as a way to guage improvement. But I’m trying to understand if those things I listed are considered par for the course at that level, given that it’s intro, or if I would really stick out.

I appreciate your insights!

[joiedevie99]

@Pehsness

And yes I do want to pay money to get it written on a score card, as a way to guage improvement. But I’m trying to understand if those things I listed are considered par for the course at that level, given that it’s intro, or if I would really stick out.

I agree. I think it’s important to put yourself out there and test your skills in the ring. It’s “easy” to do something at home on your own time and an extra circle in between to rebalance, and hard to do it in a strange place in the exact prescribed spot without any extra time and space to prepare.

Scribbler wrote a great list of potential reasons for your trainers response. Just ask! If it is actually about not being ready, ask her to talk with you about what skills you need to work on before you are ready.

There are also differences in degree. A lesson kid whose pony drags them to the center of the circle might say they have trouble riding straight. A grand prix rider whose horse wants to carry the haunches a twinge to the inside in the canter might also complain they have trouble keeping their horse straight. Over the internet, we don’t know where you fall.

[dmveventer]

A lot of people skip intro entirely so I wouldn’t be surprised if your trainer was planning to hold off on showing until you’re more consistent with some of your basics and just go right to the training tests. From what you’ve described I tend to agree with @Scribbler that you may not be “ready” in a more traditional sense, but if you want to go out for fun and don’t mind the cost you should definitely go do it anyway! Just tell your trainer you enjoy showing and want to start getting more experience in that environment for both of you, and ask what test she thinks would be a good fit to start working on with that goal in mind. If there’s a specific show your barn is going to that you want to attend, ask about that directly.

@Pehsness

And yes I do want to pay money to get it written on a score card, as a way to guage improvement.

Bit of a tangent but just to pull this thread a bit - I’m not sure this is a reasonable expectation at the lower levels. I scribe a lot in addition to my own showing and I don’t generally see a ton of variation in scores or comments, at least not enough to be a useful metric for tracking progress. The comments are going to focus on the obvious problems and not all judges are going to provide modifiers to indicate just how good/bad something was, so a horse that’s very unsteady in the contact and a horse that’s kind of unsteady in the contact might get the same “unsteady in contact” comment and maybe a half-point to a point difference in the score for that movement (or, frustratingly, equal scores depending on what other factors were at play).

Another alternative is to look for a “fix a test” type of event if they’re available in your area (or if your barn wants to host one as a clinic). That way you still get the scores and experience of riding in a show setting, but you also get a chance to talk to the judge and get actual insights on what and how to improve. I find these so valuable, much more than going to a show where I already know what comments we’re likely to get.

[Pehsness]

@joiedevie99

A grand prix rider whose horse wants to carry the haunches a twinge to the inside in the canter might also complain they have trouble keeping their horse straight.

Thanks! Take out the Grand Prix and that is what I meant. I feel like he’s straight when we’re trotting down the long side, but her eagle eyes see everything and she’s quick to tell us when we’re not perfect.

My lunch time ride was very helpful. I tried to video it but forgot to hit record, haha. So that was a bust. But I put him on a 20 meter circle and we did the things and it wasn’t terrible. He felt relatively balanced, contact was relatively steady, rhythm not too bad (I’m still figuring out how to recognize and adjust when he alters his pace, without overadjusting). Halts were good for the required 3 seconds, I was happy with the ride.

We wouldn’t embarrass ourselves, I’m more convinced. But I’ll wait until June to decide.

I appreciate everyones input!

[Pehsness]

@dmveventer

A lot of people skip intro entirely so I wouldn’t be surprised if your trainer was planning to hold off on showing until you’re more consistent with some of your basics and just go right to the training tests.

This makes a lot of sense actually. We are doing canter work at home and it’s improving, but far from great. Maybe intro is not on her radar.

[Jealoushe]

Bronze intro is a great start into the dressage showing scene. I would seriously doubt you would have any issue with showing that. I see a lot of riders out there just learning at that level. I say give it a go!

[Djones]

There are still some folks doing virtual schooling shows. Greystone Dressage is one. L grads are the judges. A lot cheaper and easier than going to a real show. It’s a thought.

[Willesdon]

You don’t say if you have ever ridden a full test at home. It can be very enlightening to ride one, rather than just practicing a few random circles, then going on to a few shoulder ins, then on to practice a serpentine a few times. A test has a flow and it needs to be accurate : “Working trot at E” means just that, not shuffling into a sort of trot a few strides on either side of E. It can be really, really helpful to tighten up your riding because you think of “Get to E and do it” rather than “At some point along the side I kick hard and hope for the best”. It would also help your trainer see where you need to improve and to help prepare you for a show.

[Pehsness]

I have ridden full tests. That part I’m not worried about. And accuracy is quite strong.

The virtual thing just isn’t for me. I don’t have a ring that I need forever out there on YouTube, lol.

BUT! I found a schooling series! Not too far away and hosting 4 shows. So while I’m more convinced than ever that we would be fine showing intro or even training at bronze level, I think I’ll give this a go this year and save the money on all the memberships.

[cayuse]

This could be a good option! I’ve done a few small ones and have enjoyed them.
OOPs, posted the same time as OP and didn’t see the virtual part not being an option, sorry about that.

[Pehsness]

I just read this more in depth - and that is why intro is appealing to me. The directions are between the letters. It is what it says… intro.

It’s interesting to me more people don’t use it/show it. For people like me with an off breed horse and lofty daydreams, riding a good intro test and achieving a good score would actually feel like an accomplishment.

[Djones]

The rides can be posted as unlisted, and the link provided only to the judge. Just FYI