Let's talk grass.

[Pohney]

This forum has been so helpful, so I just keep going with my questions. Further reading has made me give up on any idea of establishing a blended warm-season (bermuda) and cool-season (fescue) pasture. It sounds grand, but apparently doesn’t really work in real life. I have newly cleared areas that will be closer to “silvopasture” than traditionally, fully cleared horse pasture. The most highly recommended grass options I’ve had noted for shadier areas have been 1) creeping red fescue and 2) brome (ear-leaved, in particular). I understand brome to be a reasonable forage option though palatability decreases as it matures. I can’t seem to figure out if creeping red fescue is or is not a toxic endophyte host. Anyone know?

The other option I’ve come up with is a tall-fescue (60-70%), ryegrass (10-15%), and clover blend. I’m in NC. It’s hot in the summer, kinda damp all the time, and I live on clay. Orchardgrass is a no. Timothy - I don’t seem to hear of people using it much, but on paper it seems like it should work at least in mix…

For my current pastures - I was also reading about overseeding with Teff for good warm season growth. Anyone?

[StormyDay]

When I lived in NC, everyone did Bermuda in the spring and rye in the fall. The rye always came up nicely and provided something to snack on, but died as June came and the cycle repeated.
I did orchard one year. It actually grew well and we had patches that lasted through the summer to the next fall.
What part of NC? I know as you get closer to the mountains you can get away with Timothy, orchard, etc

[SkipHiLad4me]

Bermuda and fescue seem to be the predominate permanent pasture options depending on your location and soil type. If you’re in a mostly clay area, you may have better luck with fescue. There are perennial orchardgrass options but I think there have been mixed results with them in NC - perhaps western NC would have better luck. A good resource for you is to tag your local Extension office and find the extension agent there that can talk you through which varieties do well in your area. Your county’s soil and water conservation office is another good resource.

[Pohney]

@SkipHiLad4me

Bermuda and fescue seem to be the predominate permanent pasture options depending on your location and soil type. If you’re in a mostly clay area, you may have better luck with fescue. There are perennial orchardgrass options but I think there have been mixed results with them in NC - perhaps western NC would have better luck. A good resource for you is to tag your local Extension office and find the extension agent there that can talk you through which varieties do well in your area. Your county’s soil and water conservation office is another good resource.

I tried my local extension office… Let’s just say these two responses so far have been far more helpful than anything I got there!

[JB]

It does somewhat depend on where you are. But I don’t know anywhere in NC where Timothy is suitable - it just doesn’t stand up well to foot or grazing traffic.

There are longer-lived Orchardgrass varieties, such as Persist, but even then they don’t seem to do as well in a grazing situation as Bermudas and Fescues.

Unless you’ve got broodmares, I wouldn’t worry about the endophyte situation.

The warm season grasses will do best planted now or soon, depending where you are. The soil needs to be warming up for them. But it’s very risky to get the cool season Fescues planted now - you will need a long enough stretch of cool and wet enough weather for it to survive through the Summer. It’s happened before, and I need it to happen this year LOL

It’s too late to play any annual/Winter rye. It will grow now, but right as it really gets going it will be getting too warm and it will start dying.

[SkipHiLad4me]

@Pohney

I tried my local extension office… Let’s just say these two responses so far have been far more helpful than anything I got there!

As a former NC extension agent, I’m sorry to hear that! Not all counties are created equally unfortunately and there tends to be a lot of turnover/new agents these days. It’s been a few years since that was my line of work but I’m glad to help with any questions that I can.

[wildlifer]

NC physiographic regions are extremely different, so it matters where you are. I bought established pastures but they are mixed tall fescue & do well here in the piedmont, I’m happy with it. There is both red & white clover, white seems to be hardier. My soil is mostly loamy with smattering of clay, but not much. I can’t afford seed, so I’m grateful it keeps coming back (I also have 2 horses on 10 acres, so I rotate as much as I can).

As has been said, too late for rye now. I know a lot of people over seed with it in fall, I have never been able to swallow spending money on an annual.

​​If you are on sand, or up in Jackson County, options will be different.

In my job, we work with Extension a lot & yes, there is a huge amount of variability in agents, but that’s true for most groups of humans. I actually don’t know who my county agent is, I am near the Triangle so I tend to look to NCSU campus & dept heads there by default.

[JB]

@Pohney

For my current pastures - I was also reading about overseeding with Teff for good warm season growth. Anyone?

You really need to drill Teff, as the seed is tiny. It’s a good hay, I don’t know how well it stands up for foot traffic and grazing.

[Palm_Beach]

@Pohney - what kind of horses to you keep? You can spend lots of money on your pasture, only to have to muzzle your horses and mow a lot because it’s too much for them.

[Guilherme]

@Palm Beach

@Pohney - what kind of horses to you keep? You can spend lots of money on your pasture, only to have to muzzle your horses and mow a lot because it’s too much for them.

Indeed. The same pasture that will make you a ton of money with cows or sheep will kill a herd of horses.

Here’s a quick chart I found on NC grass selection. It’s largely the same as TN as we are almost identical in climate in TN.

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/forages-for-north-carolina-general-guidelines-and-concepts

G.

[StormyDay]

@Pohney

I tried my local extension office… Let’s just say these two responses so far have been far more helpful than anything I got there!

The Moore county extension office deals with a lot of horse people. I would contact them. They won’t be able to come to your property for a consult if you aren’t in Moore but I am sure they would gladly give you some advice

[Pohney]

Thanks all - the NSCU PDF reference was helpful. I think I’ve seen pages of it, but for some reason never come across the entire document in my search.

I think my last question – someone suggested they successfully grow and seed bermuda & fescue in the same fields. I’ve been worried about wasting my money on one or the other due to one basically outgrowing and crowding out the other. I know each has peak growth at different times and are best seeded in different seasons. Have people had luck with a bermuda-fescue pasture?

[Palm_Beach]

@Pohney

Thanks all - the NSCU PDF reference was helpful. I think I’ve seen pages of it, but for some reason never come across the entire document in my search.

I think my last question – someone suggested they successfully grow and seed bermuda & fescue in the same fields. I’ve been worried about wasting my money on one or the other due to one basically outgrowing and crowding out the other. I know each has peak growth at different times and are best seeded in different seasons. Have people had luck with a bermuda-fescue pasture?

Most pasture mixes contain both warm and cool season grasses. The cool season grasses do well in spring and fall, and the warm season grasses do well in the heat of the summer. That way your pasture theoretically never dies down to nothing. The way you manage it via grazing and mowing will affect it more than anything.

[Pohney]

@Palm Beach

Most pasture mixes contain both warm and cool season grasses. The cool season grasses do well in spring and fall, and the warm season grasses do well in the heat of the summer. That way your pasture theoretically never dies down to nothing. The way you manage it via grazing and mowing will affect it more than anything.

Thank you for the thoughts. Most of what I was finding on bermuda-fescue mixtures referred to lawn / turf grass varieties and referred to the fescue being crowded out by the bermudagrass and not rebounding even in its designated season. I wanted to check experiences specific to forage, and appreciate the thoughts.