Liberty Training

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=tinah;7967998]
Y’all have an opportunity here to do some good. Step it up, coth.

Wish, have you considered doing showmanship? It’s very exacting, horses seem to get really into it, and I’m sure they do classes at the fair in it, possibly for monetary prizes. You can practice with any old halter and lead. I bet if you get snazzy with it, mom and dad will buy you a leather one. And you can practice in the yard, since you don’t have a loose horse. That way you can really concentrate.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps before we get snazzy with horse shows and leather halters, we should allocate funds to “having the farrier out more than twice a year.”

It’s my favorite thing in the universe when I go to a local show to judge and see horses with loose shoes and long overdue feet but the riders magically had money for trailering, entries, and matching barn jackets.

Perhaps typing this into the text box here will help “make a difference” in prioritizing basic care first and doing the rest later.

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7968026]
Perhaps before we get snazzy with horse shows and leather halters, we should allocate funds to “having the farrier out more than twice a year.”

It’s my favorite thing in the universe when I go to a local show to judge and see horses with loose shoes and long overdue feet but the riders magically had money for trailering, entries, and matching barn jackets.

Perhaps typing this into the text box here will help “make a difference” in prioritizing basic care first and doing the rest later.[/QUOTE]

How about I set you straight?A:they don’t have ‘loose shoes’. B:they most certainly do NOT have ‘long overdue hooves’. We get the farrier out here when their hooves are growing longer. and it’s WAY before they start curling up also! way way WAY before. Just thought I’d let you know. Out here,the terrain is rougher, which wears down the hooves naturally and faster. Or can I get a supplement to ‘make’ my horse’s hooves grow faster, so I can get the vet out more?

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=RxCate;7967519]
training at horse AT Liberty? Or a coined method called Liberty Training ? There’s a difference.

AT Liberty meaning horse is untethered and roaming free in a pasture/arena while you attempt to make it do what you want. If this is what you’re aiming for, please don’t.

As you were told in your other 2 threads, A) Horsie needs to heal. and B) you need a trainer.[/QUOTE]

I’m referring to training your horse AT liberty…it’d be what Karine Vandenborre does. So, you’re saying that fistulous withers would affect groundwork? and, I don’t call my horse ‘horsie’, are you trying to humor me.

[Mosey_2003]

[QUOTE=Wish_Upon_a_Star2000;7968103]
How about I set you straight?A:they don’t have ‘loose shoes’. B:they most certainly do NOT have ‘long overdue hooves’. We get the vet out here when their hooves are growing longer. and it’s WAY before they start curling up also! way way WAY before. Just thought I’d let you know. Out here,the terrain is rougher, which wears down the hooves naturally and faster. Or can I get a supplement to ‘make’ my horse’s hooves grow faster, so I can get the vet out more? :)[/QUOTE]

Why the vet? Wouldn’t the farrier do?

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;7968174]
Why the vet? Wouldn’t the farrier do?[/QUOTE]

Sorry,typo! I meant the farrier sorry

[Calvincrowe]

Wish-- most horsemen have their horses on a fairly set schedule for the farrier/trimmer (every 7-8 weeks is most common), not “when they get long”. Meup was referring to the kids who show at the local shows she judges at. Sweetie, your posts indicate someone who is quite uneducated about horses, and you seem to not want to listen to the excellent advice given here. You seem terribly inexperienced but have juuust enough knowledge to be dangerous to yourself and your horse.

Let your horse heal. Follow your vet’s advice/treatment plan. Get the farrier out on a regular schedule. Go to a barn and at least WATCH lessons or save/earn money to get training yourself. The “at liberty” “natural horsemanship” programs require a level of commitment I don’t think you have, as well as some real horse experience.

[Emilia]

Wish, I hope, a tide will turn soon for you and you will be able to support yourself in your horsemanship goals.

Keep in mind, experienced eyes on ground, when learning, are your best option! Find a mentor at least.

In the meantime:

Local library is your friend- books and DVDs.

Also, check this site for horse DVD rentals https://www.giddyupflix.com/howitworks.php

Jackie Cochran advised you on using search feature of COTH. Among others, you can find a lot of information about different approaches to ground work, in-hand work, and liberty training.

Since you are not involved in any formal training (which I would, of course, recommend, 4H or Pony Club are great US programs for youth), you might try to see, if the following books/authors could be of some help to you (in addition to some that were already recommended):

“True Horsemanship Through Feel” by Bill Dorrance, Leslie Desmond
It is possibly the best American book written on feel and basic training. It follows western tradition. Mr. Dorrance passed long time ago, but Leslie Desmond still has a webpage with published articles further elaborating on ideas from the book.

anything by Mark Rashid, especially “Horses Never Lie”
Mark Rashid writes in a story-teller format, which is easy to follow, while still very educational. Search him on the Internet. There are many interviews and a couple of people keep blogs about their work with him, most notably ayearwithhorses.blogspot.com

For liberty work, I would recommend
Naked Liberty by Carolyn Resnick (book)
Introduction to the Waterhole Rituals by Carolyn Resnick (DVD)
Check her website http://www.dancewithhorses.com/index.php or just look her up on the net. Don’t forget youtube.
Her website includes tips on what to look for and what to be careful about.

I did the liberty training, when our horse was unrideable for about three of four months due to injury he acquired in the pasture (a blow to the back from another horse).

As an European and a person, who grew up in a riding club, I had experience with in-hand work already, but not liberty training.

I read her book carefully, later purchased the DVD, read her blog entries on her website, and followed her steps and ideas to the best of my ability.

I always wore helmet, gloves, and carried a dressage whip and/or driving whip, when working at liberty (I found longe whip to be too difficult to operate under the circumstances. C. Resnick uses reed).

In addition to liberty training, when he could not be ridden, I started him with trick training, I took him on long walks on trails in hand (rope halter, long lead rope, helmet, gloves, and dressage whip), and I continued his in-hand education.

It helped our relationship quite a bit. When I got on him again, he was even better than before. I think, it was because I developed better feel for him in those months we spent on ground.

Remember, if you are “going it alone,” you have to be twice as careful! When you read up on a new idea, investigate further.

Stay with this forum and learn to operate in its world. This forum is filled with many serious amateurs (various disciplines or just pleasure riders), who might be able to give you a good advice, even if it sometimes comes peppered with harsh words, irony, or sarcasm.

[Foxtrot_s]

Emilia - may I congratulate you on our thoughtful, helpful, and polite post?
A refreshing and mannerly piece.

[Emilia]

Thank you, Foxtrot’s.

Due to its potential danger, I would like to elaborate little more on liberty training, starting with a link to the following youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3szHByi7xBw

This is about how NOT to do it and possible GRAVE consequences of being careless and clueless about horse’s body language.

Liberty work, as any other work with horses, is a slow process, during which a handler builds on little by little.

It should never be boring to you, but it looks boring to outsiders, especially the first stages of it. What you see on liberty shows at large horse fairs- that’s a tip of the pyramid and takes years to learn how to do.

After introduction, you start at walk by companion walking only. You always work in a space large enough so that the horse has a freedom to get away from you, express itself, and not feel a constant pressure.

Do not ever try to fire the horse up, if you cannot control him through your energy and body language! That is how accidents like the one in youtube video happen.

I recommend C.Resnick, because she herself learnt a lot on her own, though she did have mentors as a child.

Her rituals can work for beginners very well, if followed carefully and thought out.

She advocates them as a preliminary work to create a strong bond before riding. She does expect people to eventually ride, though I have found out that many people, who follow her, really have no intention to ride at all.

Many of her opinions are based on her observations of interaction of horses among themselves.

It is very important to learn to read/interpret a horse’s language correctly.

Therefore, I would also recommend you to never miss an opportunity to watch horses interact among themselves.

The real life is the best, but there are a couple of documentaries, such as PBS’s “Cloud- Wild Stallion of Rockies,” in which you can learn by carefully observing and using rewind feature.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/cloud-wild-stallion-of-the-rockies-video-full-episode/260/

Also, youtube has some good videos on equine behavior, such as this one on dominance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tql546leL6Y

[DoubleTwistedWire]

@tinah;7967998

Y’all have an opportunity here to do some good. Step it up, coth.

@Mosey_2003;7968023

We DID step it up. Deaf ears.

Indeed. People, myself included, posted numerous suggestions of educational programs (4H, PC), titles of books, and links to hours of videos on her other thread, without so much as a thank you from her. All we got was a “but I caaaaaan’t”. IF she actually was receptive to learning about horsemanship and seemed even vaguely thankful for the information provided, people would be more than happy to help her.

We’ve also asked, repeatedly, whether or not the mare has actually been tested for brucellosis, which is endemic in wildlife in her state, as a cause of her fistulous withers, and got nothing.

[midstride]

@emilia;7968948

Thank you, Foxtrot’s.

Due to its potential danger, I would like to elaborate little more on liberty training, starting with a link to the following youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3szHByi7xBw

This is about how NOT to do it and possible GRAVE consequences of being careless and clueless about horse’s body language.

Cannot unhear that crack/pop. It is stuck in my head now.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=emilia;7968948]
Thank you, Foxtrot’s.

Due to its potential danger, I would like to elaborate little more on liberty training, starting with a link to the following youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3szHByi7xBw

This is about how NOT to do it and possible GRAVE consequences of being careless and clueless about horse’s body language
[URL=“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tql546leL6Y”]
6Y[/QUOTE]

This ought to be a sticky on top of this forum for all those who think horse would never hurt them, think they are playing with the horse or thus is the way to safely teach a horse to jump. It also rather neatly explains the theory of not treating horses like dogs in another thread, this handler could have gotten away with this without a head injury working with even an ill behaved dog.

But back to OP, showmanship is a great idea you can do a lot if on your own BUT you will need to get some DVDs or dig up some YouTube examples and spend time learning basics on top of creating a place to practice without other horses wandering around. Can you do these things?

Is your mare still on antibiotics? Which ones was/is she on to clear the fistula?

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=Calvincrowe;7968216]
Wish-- most horsemen have their horses on a fairly set schedule for the farrier/trimmer (every 7-8 weeks is most common), not “when they get long”. Meup was referring to the kids who show at the local shows she judges at. [/QUOTE]
My point Meup was saying I let their hooves grow long; long story short, I don’t

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=findeight;7969245]
This ought to be a sticky on top of this forum for all those who think horse would never hurt them, think they are playing with the horse or thus is the way to safely teach a horse to jump. It also rather neatly explains the theory of not treating horses like dogs in another thread, this handler could have gotten away with this without a head injury working with even an ill behaved dog.

But back to OP, showmanship is a great idea you can do a lot if on your own BUT you will need to get some DVDs or dig up some YouTube examples and spend time learning basics on top of creating a place to practice without other horses wandering around. Can you do these things?

Is your mare still on antibiotics? Which ones was/is she on to clear the fistula?[/QUOTE]

Thank you! Yes I can! Do you have any YouTube videos to recommend? I’ve been looking, but haven’t found many. We caught the fistula before it burst, so the vet put her on bute, about 4 scoops a day for 4 weeks, then 2 per day for about 2-3 more weeks, then vary the amount to every other day for awhile, til its gone. And that was about 2 weeks before Thanksgiving.

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=findeight;7969245]
This ought to be a sticky on top of this forum for all those who think horse would never hurt them, think they are playing with the horse or thus is the way to safely teach a horse to jump. It also rather neatly explains the theory of not treating horses like dogs in another thread, this handler could have gotten away with this without a head injury working with even an ill behaved dog.

But back to OP, showmanship is a great idea you can do a lot if on your own BUT you will need to get some DVDs or dig up some YouTube examples and spend time learning basics on top of creating a place to practice without other horses wandering around. Can you do these things?

Is your mare still on antibiotics? Which ones was/is she on to clear the fistula?[/QUOTE]

Thank you! Yes I can! Do you have any YouTube videos to recommend? I’ve been looking, but haven’t found many. We caught the fistula before it burst, so the vet put her on bute, about 4 scoops a day for 4 weeks, then 2 per day for about 2-3 more weeks, then vary the amount to every other day for awhile, til its gone. And that was about 2 weeks before Thanksgiving.

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=emilia;7968217]
Wish, I hope, a tide will turn soon for you and you will be able to support yourself in your horsemanship goals.

Keep in mind, experienced eyes on ground, when learning, are your best option! Find a mentor at least.

In the meantime:

Local library is your friend- books and DVDs.

Also, check this site for horse DVD rentals https://www.giddyupflix.com/howitworks.php

Jackie Cochran advised you on using search feature of COTH. Among others, you can find a lot of information about different approaches to ground work, in-hand work, and liberty training.

Since you are not involved in any formal training (which I would, of course, recommend, 4H or Pony Club are great US programs for youth), you might try to see, if the following books/authors could be of some help to you (in addition to some that were already recommended):

“True Horsemanship Through Feel” by Bill Dorrance, Leslie Desmond
It is possibly the best American book written on feel and basic training. It follows western tradition. Mr. Dorrance passed long time ago, but Leslie Desmond still has a webpage with published articles further elaborating on ideas from the book.

anything by Mark Rashid, especially “Horses Never Lie”
Mark Rashid writes in a story-teller format, which is easy to follow, while still very educational. Search him on the Internet. There are many interviews and a couple of people keep blogs about their work with him, most notably ayearwithhorses.blogspot.com

For liberty work, I would recommend
Naked Liberty by Carolyn Resnick (book)
Introduction to the Waterhole Rituals by Carolyn Resnick (DVD)
Check her website http://www.dancewithhorses.com/index.php or just look her up on the net. Don’t forget youtube.
Her website includes tips on what to look for and what to be careful about.

I did the liberty training, when our horse was unrideable for about three of four months due to injury he acquired in the pasture (a blow to the back from another horse).

As an European and a person, who grew up in a riding club, I had experience with in-hand work already, but not liberty training.

I read her book carefully, later purchased the DVD, read her blog entries on her website, and followed her steps and ideas to the best of my ability.

I always wore helmet, gloves, and carried a dressage whip and/or driving whip, when working at liberty (I found longe whip to be too difficult to operate under the circumstances. C. Resnick uses reed).

In addition to liberty training, when he could not be ridden, I started him with trick training, I took him on long walks on trails in hand (rope halter, long lead rope, helmet, gloves, and dressage whip), and I continued his in-hand education.

It helped our relationship quite a bit. When I got on him again, he was even better than before. I think, it was because I developed better feel for him in those months we spent on ground.

Remember, if you are “going it alone,” you have to be twice as careful! When you read up on a new idea, investigate further.

Stay with this forum and learn to operate in its world. This forum is filled with many serious amateurs (various disciplines or just pleasure riders), who might be able to give you a good advice, even if it sometimes comes peppered with harsh words, irony, or sarcasm.[/QUOTE]

Thank you!I will definitely look up those books!

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

Thank you Will check it out! I love liberty work, and since she has a long time to heal, I feel it will be a good time to just get to know her better, and maybe do a little bit of liberty.

[danceronice]

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Horses-Doubleday-Equestrian-Library/dp/0385262388/

Oldie but goodie. 4-H horse training and Storey’s, also good and cheap on amazon. Like .03 plus shipping.

Most people at maximum go 10 weeks between trims.

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

[QUOTE=DoubleTwistedWire;7969033]
Indeed. People, myself included, posted numerous suggestions of educational programs (4H, PC), titles of books, and links to hours of videos on her other thread, without so much as a thank you from her. All we got was a “but I caaaaaan’t”. IF she actually was receptive to learning about horsemanship and seemed even vaguely thankful for the information provided, people would be more than happy to help her.

We’ve also asked, repeatedly, whether or not the mare has actually been tested for brucellosis, which is endemic in wildlife in her state, as a cause of her fistulous withers, and got nothing.[/QUOTE]

Whoa whoa whoa… I was not aware of that! Excuse me, but alot of people seemed more involved in tearing me down than helping me… I’m sorry if I didn’t say thank you…I did post “Thank you all for your advice!” at one point, I didn’t feel I could reply to every single person! So, here’s a “thank you”. And, I did not give an “I caaaaaaaaan’t”!! Who am I to argue with my parents? I am not planning to be a rebel; if they say I am not allowed, what else can I do, except continue to ask (moderately!!) in hopes that they changed their mind? And, no she has not been tested for brucellosis. I am intent on learning everything I can about horses. No one can stop me from that. Everyone had to learn at some place!

[jen-s]

[QUOTE=Wish_Upon_a_Star2000;7969370]
Thank you! Yes I can! Do you have any YouTube videos to recommend? I’ve been looking, but haven’t found many. We caught the fistula before it burst, so the vet put her on bute, about 4 scoops a day for 4 weeks, then 2 per day for about 2-3 more weeks, then vary the amount to every other day for awhile, til its gone. And that was about 2 weeks before Thanksgiving.[/QUOTE]

Bute is not an antibiotic. It will not clear an infection.

Wish–I was also a horse crazy kid at your age with unsupportive parents. Please, please, please listen to the advice you keep dismissing (or appearing to dismiss) about finding a trainer, pony club, 4H, etc. Even with the best of instruction and most well-trained of horses, injuries can and will happen. The last thing any of us want to do is discourage the next generation of horse people, but we’ve been in your shoes and many of us were hurt as a result. We don’t want that for you!

If your parents continue to be unwilling to pay for a trainer or lessons, there are LOTS of ways to finance your own education. I paid for 100% of my horse expenses from the time I was 12. Is it easy? Hell no! Is it worth it? Absolutely. Will you have to do things you don’t like–boring jobs, mucking stalls, or whatever? Most likely. But you have to decide that becoming a well-rounded horsewoman is worth a little sacrifice.