[QUOTE=JLR1;8416207]
Well since you are so busy talking about how everyone else did at the show care to share with everyone how well you and your warmblood did at training level? 
Furthermore it is incredibly condescending to assume just because you have a warmblood you will magically place near the top. Dressage is equal parts horse equal parts rider![/QUOTE]
Really, you need to calm down and read for comprehension…
Oh, JLR-I don’t think that’s how she meant it at all.
I’m quite sure she just meant that because her horse happens to be a WB, then she hopes to be near the top on her WB. She hopes to be near the top regardless, but since this particular horse is a WB, then she hopes to be near the top on her WB. Just as she would want to be at the top on her TB.
That’s all.
Netg is not a breed snob in the slightest.
Yes I’m sure she meant she’d like to be at the top due to work and goal-setting, not because the mare is a WB.
I got see to netg’s mare in one of her tests and during some warmup, and I thought she looked just great. Stepping under, and in the correct stage of connection, and willing, despite some anxieties.
I would expect she will be quite competitive as she matures, regardless of her breed or type. I couldn’t ride a five year old as nicely, I haven’t got the skill set. And anyway for many people, a baby horse’s earliest outings are seen as schooling opportunities first, and competitions, second. I don’t know if that’s how netg looked at it, but I do know she readily adjusts her plans to what the horse needs in the moment.
She was a wonderful onsite cheerleader for my mare’s non-WB presence in the mix, all weekend. No breeditude whatsoever. :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8404133]
So there are all these factors involved. Another thing that happened was that the “World Famous” touring show, which crisscrossed the Country for deceases, went out of business in or around 2010-11. Whether people loved or poo-poohed their performances, they were providing a level of ambassadorship and were generating an interest, which is now gone.[/QUOTE]
Ahh, thanks for that bit of news. I’ve read a bunch of unclear press about that show being on hiatus, to return… real soon now. Maybe.
If I want to see a bunch of examples of the breed in one place (ideally doing top-notch dressage), any comments on the Tempel Lipizzans vs Hermann’s Royal Lipizzans (those being the remaining North America options afaik) vs. just heading for Vienna and the SRS?
[QUOTE=amb;8416551]
If I want to see a bunch of examples of the breed in one place (ideally doing top-notch dressage), any comments on the Tempel Lipizzans vs Hermann’s Royal Lipizzans (those being the remaining North America options afaik) vs. just heading for Vienna and the SRS?[/QUOTE]
Tempel follows the basic principles of classical training, with some adjustment for modern competitive dressage. Their shows are very appealing. I bought my horse from them, and I have seen their performances, so obviously there’s some prejudice on my part.
There was a lengthy period of management shift at Tempel during which the early training was somewhat forgotten, and a negative reputation emerged. (Early trainers included Karl Mikolka and George Williams among many others. During their employ, the shows were in something of a heyday and were widely known as examples of correct classical dressage riding.)
There has been new management at Tempel for about four-five years now, with the Smith family more entrenched and involved, and so there’s a strong focus on returning to form.
The FL-based Hermann’s show does tour up and down the East Coast irregularly, which gives more people an opportunity to see Lipizzans. The Tempel show must, for the most part, be seen at home outside Chicago, and only in the Summer. They did travel to Dressage at Devon this year and were well received.
I have not seen the Hermann’s show in person, but their videos indicate that they are of a different standard from what Tempel does, or what the “World Famous” show demonstrated.
It has been interesting to read everyone’s opinions on this wonderful breed. While my husband and I were at Tempel Farms, we oversaw a little over 100 Lipizzans for training, breeding and driving. There were 26 stallions in the main stables alone. When George first arrived at Tempel, there were over 400 Lipizzans there. Needless to say, we got to know the breed quite well.
During the nearly 20 years there, we found the Lipizzans to be very intelligent, very trainable and for the most part, quite kind. When our daughter was 3 years old, we would let her sit on the backs of the Lipizzan stallions my husband was competing while we cleaned their stalls at the shows. My daughter had a penchant for wanting to run around the show grounds and in this way, she stayed put. The horses would munch hay and she would practice braiding their manes from their backs. I never once worried about her safety. At 4 years of age, she was being long reined on one of the Grand Prix stallions and by 6, she was riding a different one all on her own.
To make a general statement that they are not a good horse for beginners is, to my mind, like saying that all Fords are fast cars. Individuals are individuals and I don’t discount that. Some were more difficult than others - as is the case with all breeds.
George did compete several Lipizzans, one of whom won the Pan Am Selection trial in Michigan, beating Christolot Boylen. Another one regularly beat Metallic when they competed against each other in the lower levels.
Going to Vienna to see the Lipizzans does not compare to anything else because Vienna is not like anywhere else. If you want to see Lipizzans in the United States; there are very few places as beautiful as Tempel Farms.
Thanks for all of that, Roberta. I agree completely about the temperament statements.
I wanted to try to link to pictures of the lineup that I was talking about, from the AZ State Champs Sunday, in which a variety of horses were represented in the ribbons at First Level. There were 18 prequalified horses in the class, mostly WBs. There were 13 in the Training Level class in which an Andalusian was Champion, an Arab Second, and a Lipizzan was Fifth. (No photos of that lineup)
I hope this works:
https://alkalphx.smugmug.com/Lola/
Left to right, First through Sixth. A Lusitano, a Holsteiner, a Lipizzan (me), a KWPN, an OTTB, and a Morgan/STB cross.
Beautiful line up!
[QUOTE=Roberta;8417780]
Going to Vienna to see the Lipizzans does not compare to anything else because Vienna is not like anywhere else…[/QUOTE]
Yes, gotta agree with you there - it is the whole experience - the royal stables, the amazing arena, the historical riding outfits. I saw the SRS on tour in SF when I was younger (back in the 70s), and saw a few of the “other” touring groups. Nothing compared with actually visiting the Spanish Riding School in Vienna!
When I was a youngster, eons ago in the 1960s, there was a stallion imported to Maryland who I believe was of the Favory line. He was featured on the front of the Baltimore Sun’s magazine insert. I think this stallion ended up with Thomas Wyman who had an estate on the Eastern Shore, but whether that was the case or not, he had a Favory stallion or gelding who was ridden in the hunt as the whip’s horse. My sister’s best friend rode him when she worked for Mr. Wyman and she had a beautiful black and white photo of the two of them standing in a cut corn field during a hunt day. I met him and he was just a glorious horse, jumped well, was very handy and very manageable, (which is why I thought he was a gelding but he may have been a stallion). I cannot find anything about this Googling, sadly.
[QUOTE=JLR1;8416207]
Well since you are so busy talking about how everyone else did at the show care to share with everyone how well you and your warmblood did at training level?
Furthermore it is incredibly condescending to assume just because you have a warmblood you will magically place near the top. Dressage is equal parts horse equal parts rider![/QUOTE]
Sorry, I forget that people who don’t actually know me can’t interpret what I say off text on the internet as no one is a mind reader. 
My goals are really about the training which will be behind them, and not at all about the placing. As RHRT said, I did mean that my goals are on a warmblood just because that is what my horse happens to be, not because she is a warmblood. She has gained strength and ability recently, so I am taking a break from rated shows to prepare for first level. I want her to be capable of excellent first level tests, but as a young, high energy horse, I don’t actually have winning the championship next year as a goal - but having her prepared where it could be a possibility. The day of, we’ll see how we’re doing and that will determine things.
For the record, I tried to buy several non-warmbloods prior to buying my warmblood. I believe if shopping a rider should look for a horse suited toward his/her goals, regardless of breed and type preferences. And I fully believe if a rider already has a horse he/she loves, that rider should use that horse for dressage regardless of breed/type. I care MUCH more about the partnership than show placings, and feel at times show placings are too biased in favor of the WB types.
[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8416497]Yes I’m sure she meant she’d like to be at the top due to work and goal-setting, not because the mare is a WB.
I got see to netg’s mare in one of her tests and during some warmup, and I thought she looked just great. Stepping under, and in the correct stage of connection, and willing, despite some anxieties.
I would expect she will be quite competitive as she matures, regardless of her breed or type. I couldn’t ride a five year old as nicely, I haven’t got the skill set. And anyway for many people, a baby horse’s earliest outings are seen as schooling opportunities first, and competitions, second. I don’t know if that’s how netg looked at it, but I do know she readily adjusts her plans to what the horse needs in the moment.
She was a wonderful onsite cheerleader for my mare’s non-WB presence in the mix, all weekend. No breeditude whatsoever. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Thanks! I am lucky that my trainer is so good at teaching me how to ride her better and be the supportive rider she needs. I prefer the high energy types for riding every day, which means at home they don’t have the same tension but they constantly offer a lot and are self-motivated to move. It just means I need to get mileage with her so she can learn to have less tension away from home, too. Luckily my goals are about progressing and developing and I’m ok with getting low 60s on days she’s super tense, with scores ranging from 4 to 8. I know at home she’s more consistent and as she gets used to showing she will develop more consistency and ocntinue to improve - the tension now is the price of the type of horse I prefer to ride.
As far as how we did, we did get low 60s from 3 different judges, including one who was happy to give scores in the 50s when deserved, and I scratched on day 2 when the super cold and strong wind caused even more tension and upset from her. My goals are much more long term than any one show, and forcing her to go with the level of tension she had that morning would have been a negative toward her future. I only want to have good experiences with her at shows if I can help it. The tension showed us some holes which are fairly imperceptible when she’s relaxed at home/my trainer’s, so they gave us some homework to do.
To me that aspect of showing is actually my favorite part. I want our training to be such that it can withstand the tension and help her relax, and showing helps us find that.
Back to the topic of Lipizzans… I saw travelling shows growing up, I think both SRS and the “World Famous” show. At the time I didn’t know the difference by name necessarily, but I remember being astounded by the difference in quality of performance… we discussed how much better one was than the other, without knowing they were entirely different entities with extremely different histories and reputations. But in both, the horses were absolutely beautiful, and I can see why that “dream horse” aspect exists for the inexperienced and can be an issue. Who wouldn’t want that dream, when they aren’t educated enough to understand how much work goes behind it?
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