Lipizanners - Just wondering why you don't see

[TheHotSensitiveType]

[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8404199]
Here is a piece I wrote that appeared earlier this year in Dressage Today. I talked about horse shopping and my reasons for picking a Lipizzan over a WB.

Although it doesn’t really get into the issues of why there aren’t more Lipizzans, it relates to some of this discussion.

http://dressagetoday.com/article/love-for-the-lipizzan-29125[/QUOTE]

Dressage Today has been pretty miss for me lately, but I thoroughly enjoyed that article! Thanks for sharing your perspective. One of the recent DT articles really made me laugh though… the one about the horse that was too small for adults but too hot for kids… all 16 hands of that horse. I had better go tell 90% of the horses at the barn that they shouldn’t be being ridden by adults!

IME, Lipizzans can be appropriate for ammy’s, even beginner ones! My mare’s dam is the coolest horse. She is amazing with beginners, including will not canter if the rider is not balanced enough, but is super forward and sassy with a more advanced rider. My mare’s sire is mostly beginner safe too except for the days where he felt he needed to show off! My mare on the other hand is not tolerant of beginners and is a bit spooky. You have to look at the individual like any other breed.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=TheHotSensitiveType;8406945]
Dressage Today has been pretty miss for me lately, but I thoroughly enjoyed that article! Thanks for sharing your perspective. One of the recent DT articles really made me laugh though… the one about the horse that was too small for adults but too hot for kids… all 16 hands of that horse. I had better go tell 90% of the horses at the barn that they shouldn’t be being ridden by adults!

IME, Lipizzans can be appropriate for ammy’s, even beginner ones! My mare’s dam is the coolest horse. She is amazing with beginners, including will not canter if the rider is not balanced enough, but is super forward and sassy with a more advanced rider. My mare’s sire is mostly beginner safe too except for the days where he felt he needed to show off! My mare on the other hand is not tolerant of beginners and is a bit spooky. You have to look at the individual like any other breed.[/QUOTE]

I’ve known more than a few horses who acted very differently depending on who was riding them. My first horse, who was an OTTB, would be very pokey and slow when unbalanced beginners rode him. However, he would perk up and have plenty of “go” when someone got on who knew what they were doing. He was very good at figuring out what type of rider he had on his back and would act accordingly.

In my opinion, the Lippizaners were bred for Haute Ecole and they are the perfect horse for that. The type of horses we see these days who have phenomenal extensions, etc. are not necessarily the type who would be able to do well at levade, courbette, and all the other airs above the ground.

Ultimately, people should ride whatever makes them happy and helps them meet their goals.

[Dressagelvr]

The reason WBs dominate sport horse competitions is quite simply because they have been bred for it. Generation after generation after generation.

Many WB lines are perfect for ammy and junior owners.

In other breeds/types of horses, there are individuals capable of excelling at h/j/eq and dressage, but you don’t see them as much because they are fewer.

Baroque breeds aren’t seen as much in dressage because they tend to paddle, be short strided, unable to extend well, and tight in the back. Now, this is starting to change, so I expect to slowly start seeing more of them in the future.

I still say TBs make the best eventers, but this too is starting to change, I fear. It’s just harder to find a good TB for sport these days as so much of TB breeding is focused on sprinters vs. the old distance lines. This means horses w/low set necks who are also very down hill. Not good for dressage or jumping, really. That said, there are certainly great individuals out there and bravo to those who find them.

At the end of the day, this is what it’s about:

. Ultimately, people should ride whatever makes them happy and helps them meet their goals.

[Mistral]

Both my daughter (13) and I are Amateurs, and we have owned and ridden (and often started under saddle!) Lipizzans for the last 5 or 6 years.

Prior to this breed, I rode and showed Arabs and the occasional warmblood. I was pretty much done with training or riding when our first one showed up. But his personality, temperament and willingness made me change my mind. IME, they WANT to be ridden and worked.

Obviously I’m biased, though. Hopefully next spring we will get ours in the dressage ring and in the public eye.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8404133]

Several of us in the registry (USLF) have implemented and have been managing an ad campaign designed to at least put the idea of considering Lipizzans into the minds of competitive dressage riders. We have ads in the USDF Connection magazine, and a half page in the USDF Member Guide, and in other places. We had ads in the “baroque” issues of Horse Illustrated and Dressage Today, this year. We have more ads coming up.

I’m curious whether people who get the USDF publication or Dressage Today have noticed these ads. [/QUOTE]

Yes, I have ! As a former member of USLR, I’m happy to see them.

[artisticgold]

I purchased a 3 year old filly from the now defunct Famous Lipizzaner Stallions traveling show. I went looking for a trained horse, but the only thing that caught my eye was a little 3 year old who looked more like a yearling. I bought her based on her attitude, movement and the fact that her maternal grandsire, Favory Bora, was ridden by Michael Poulin and was said to be aiming for the Olympics because the stallion died an untimely death. Her daddy is a smaller stallion that Michael also handpicked to ride and train, he is currently cleaning up at 4th level and training the FEI. Both daddy and maternal granddaddy were bred at the SRS Piber stud.

Bora is only 14.1h, so technically a pony, but boy she doesn’t ride like a pony! She has power, extension, collection, and go, go, go…I broke her at 4 and me in my later 50’s. She took to training as if she had done it her whole life, genetics seem to run true, it’s almost like she is programmed to be ridden, it’s amazing to work with a horse that seems to already know what to do. The years of careful breeding shows.

She’s had a few crazy injuries, so we have had setbacks, but when I just want to go out and have fun and ride, she’s the one I pull out. She loves attention and is super smart, willing, and even though she’s a bit sassy, she is very safe and has not done anything dangerous under saddle at all. Everyone who sees her remarks on her huge trot and presence under saddle. We have strugged with saddle fit as she doesn’t have much in the way of withers and has developed into a wide muscular girl. Finally got a Kent and Masters Cob and all of a sudden she is lifting her withers and back and is a real powerhouse. I have a blast on her, she’s just so much fun and is a real love besides.

I have met quite a few other Lipizzaners and liked them all, but they do tend to be a lot of horse, so not for beginners on average, but I think they are terribly underrated and have so much to offer especially to petite women who don’t want to ride a big, heavy horse. I don’t end up tired and exhausted after riding her like I do when I ride my bigger FEI schoolmaster. I’ve ridden just about every breed there is, and I’m loving my Lip!

I see many value priced Lipizzans, and quite a few breeders are breeding taller horse with more extension and suspension. If I were looking for an upper level horse, I would certainly search long and hard for one.

[Krwang]

Lipizzans in dressage

i rode and trained my purebred Lipizzan mare “Belladiva” from a green broke 4yr old to Grand Prix. Together we received all our USDF medals and freestyle bars as well as numerous regional/Year end awards, she took me to Gladstone twice and NAJYRC a number of times. Yes her weakest movembet may have been the extended gaits but what she lacked in that we made up in the movements that mattered (aka double coefficients) like the lateral movements and lead changes. I think confirmation is a big factor contributing to this as well as obviously training. She is not your “typical” build Lipizzan she is what they refer to as the sport horse type. Her offspring is now a 3yrs old and he too is well over 16.1hh but has the more traditional compact Lipizzan frame. He shows a natural ability to have more lift and carriage than that of his mother. With more Lipizzans being ridden in the upper levels (ex Amanda Johnson with the temple stallion and a few others ridden successfully by temple farms trainers) perhaps this rare gem will gain the spotlight they deserve because they truly are amazing creatures

[xQHDQ]

I just wish they weren’t grey/white. I can’t keep my black horse clean. I can’t imagine trying to keep a Lipizzaner clean!

Otherwise I would love one as they seem like really fun horses.

[Carole]

In 1989 a Half-Lipizzan won USDF Horse of the Year at Grand Prix. The next year, 1990, a purebred Lipizzan won the same title! In the following years, we have had 18 Lipizzans competing and earning distinction at all levels in USDF and Driving competitions. Lipizzans have been competitive from Training Level to Grand Prix throughout these years. We have the smallest percentage by breed in USDF, but the largest percentage of horses receiving honors in competition. You are right, Cheryl, they are VERY capable of all of the movements, and besides being extremely athletic, they have what is called “the blessed temperament”, which makes them very easy to train and enjoy riding!

[Jenerationx]

I remember seeing one for the first time when I was maybe 6 years old and absolutely fell in love. When I began riding, it was as a hunter/jumper. I rode for 20 years and then life got in the way and I’ve been on a 15 year hiatus from riding and looking to get back into it. I have never sat on a Lipizzan, but that gorgeous animal is part of the reason I ever sat on a horse.

[Mad_Mare]

Keeping a Lipizzan white isn’t that hard. Seriously.

Use pellet bedding. Clean it at night, before bed time. Sift through it to remove the manure, and totally remove the wet spots. Fluff bedding. Add more pellets when needed. Strip stall about once a month and add fresh pellets. I use whole pellets, not the ones that need to be wetted down.

Promptly remove any urine/manure marks with water in the morning before they set.

White horse. There you go.

[Shagyas_Rock]

There is no need to worry about keeping a grey horse clean, any more than any other color horse. I have two greys and two bays. They all get groomed but no horse needs to be spotless for everyday schooling or hacking. For competitions - I just give them a bath as you would any other color horse and the rest of the time I never worry about how clean they look. Judicious use of Show Sheen and Miracle Groom and/or a sheet etc can do wonders to keep them spotless for the duration of the show. The nicest thing about greys is that they look so sharp in just about any color you want to dress them in. Except yellow or brown. . .

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8404199]
Here is a piece I wrote that appeared earlier this year in Dressage Today. I talked about horse shopping and my reasons for picking a Lipizzan over a WB.

Although it doesn’t really get into the issues of why there aren’t more Lipizzans, it relates to some of this discussion.

http://dressagetoday.com/article/love-for-the-lipizzan-29125[/QUOTE]

Thank you for sharing your article, Silverbridge - I really loved it!

[Two_Lipies]

Lipies are fabulous at many things, and we are starting to see more in competition. One made the USDF finals this year, and there are larger ones available if that’s an issue. They are the perfect horse for dressage!

[netg]

@Dressagelvr;8407224

The reason WBs dominate sport horse competitions is quite simply because they have been bred for it. Generation after generation after generation.

Lipizzans have been bred for dressage many more generations than warmbloods…

Warmbloods are more successful in the show ring because rules and judging guidelines favor their type. When suspension and reach are favored as “good movement” and set the basis for scores, the breed for which that is the most common trait will be most successful.
If the emphasis were on getting true collection, horses like Lipizzans will tend to be more successful.

Since Silverbridge won’t toot his own horn… he and his lovely mare were out their at our state championships this weekend proving that they are perfectly capable of being competitive. They were 3rd in the 1st level championship.

[Silverbridge]

Thanks!

I think the horn-tooting that is most relevant to this thread, though, is to note that the State Champion in our Training Level class was an Andalusian, and the State Champ at First Level, a Lusitano. I don’t remember that happening before but I haven’t been following the results for very many years.

Our Training Level lineup of six included a Shagya, a QH, a Lipizzan (fifth), an Arab, and the winning Andi. The First Level lineup included an OTTB, a Lipizzan, a Morgan cross, and the winning Luso.

And I will acknowledge that the two “top” qualified WBs in our levels in AZ did not compete. One was sold and the other competed at Finals in KY just two weeks ago so the owner decided to skip this show. Several nice WBs, some US-bred and some imported, were big winners all weekend at all levels including the lower levels.

Still, the point is that we definitely had fair representation of a variety of breeds in the AA championship classes and it was interesting to see baroque horses scoring at the top.

Winning a ribbon in a really big, qualified, class does validate the concept that says that, if you apply yourself to the horse you have and you ride to his or her strengths, then you have every opportunity to get scores as high as the flashier-moving WBs get. They may just be in different boxes.

[Magicboy]

Congrats to Silverbridge…your hard work is paying off!

[netg]

[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8413508]
Thanks!

I think the horn-tooting that is most relevant to this thread, though, is to note that the State Champion in our Training Level class was an Andalusian, and the State Champ at First Level, a Lusitano. I don’t remember that happening before but I haven’t been following the results for very many years.

Our Training Level lineup of six included a Shagya, a QH, a Lipizzan (fifth), an Arab, and the winning Andi. The First Level lineup included an OTTB, a Lipizzan, a Morgan cross, and the winning Luso.

And I will acknowledge that the two “top” qualified WBs in our levels in AZ did not compete. One was sold and the other competed at Finals in KY just two weeks ago so the owner decided to skip this show. Several nice WBs, some US-bred and some imported, were big winners all weekend at all levels including the lower levels.

Still, the point is that we definitely had fair representation of a variety of breeds in the AA championship classes and it was interesting to see baroque horses scoring at the top.

Winning a ribbon in a really big, qualified, class does validate the concept that says that, if you apply yourself to the horse you have and you ride to his or her strengths, then you have every opportunity to get scores as high as the flashier-moving WBs get. They may just be in different boxes.[/QUOTE]

Great point about the different breeds! I think we do have a really wide variety here which is neat to see - and some really excellent training on some of those horses. I’m not sure if it was the QH I am thinking of who was in the top 6, but if so that pair is one of my favorites. Very downhill, WP dropout. She was so tight in her whole body (I think it’s a mare, not a gelding?!) at first when transitioning to dressage, but correct work has made the horse a really lovely, free- and uphill-moving pleasure to watch. To me, they are just the ultimate example of the value of dressage.

And of course the qualifier who didn’t ride in the class because of competing in KY, WON her class there. On a half QH.

My goal is to be near the top next year for first level on my warmblood. But that’s because she happens to be a warmblood, not because I think other horses can’t compete!

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

[QUOTE=netg;8414387]
Great point about the different breeds! I think we do have a really wide variety here which is neat to see - and some really excellent training on some of those horses. I’m not sure if it was the QH I am thinking of who was in the top 6, but if so that pair is one of my favorites. Very downhill, WP dropout. She was so tight in her whole body (I think it’s a mare, not a gelding?!) at first when transitioning to dressage, but correct work has made the horse a really lovely, free- and uphill-moving pleasure to watch. To me, they are just the ultimate example of the value of dressage.

And of course the qualifier who didn’t ride in the class because of competing in KY, WON her class there. On a half QH.

My goal is to be near the top next year for first level on my warmblood. But that’s because she happens to be a warmblood, not because I think other horses can’t compete![/QUOTE]

Have to add to silverbridge’s post that another top horse (very nice well-ridden WB) didn’t have the best outing, in fact the lowest outing he has had, during the championship class, or he certainly would have placed.

Fun group of horses and very nice to have these results!

[JLR1]

[QUOTE=netg;8414387]

My goal is to be near the top next year for first level on my warmblood. But that’s because she happens to be a warmblood, not because I think other horses can’t compete![/QUOTE]

Well since you are so busy talking about how everyone else did at the show care to share with everyone how well you and your warmblood did at training level?

Furthermore it is incredibly condescending to assume just because you have a warmblood you will magically place near the top. Dressage is equal parts horse equal parts rider!