Literally just wondering if he was violating anyone’s TOS by putting together those clips and disseminating them on social media.
1 Like
They were standing in the center listening to her, as I recall from the Voorn post? I figured it must’ve been at the beginning or end.
I don’t really know how I feel about the clips being edited out, or how I would advise a client in a situation like this. I tend to think it wasn’t helpful in the long run, especially if they’re not being clear that the videos have been edited (the last thing I saw was indicating quality issues, not content issues eyeroll). Now, you just have a lot of speculation or people going back to Voorn’s clip.
1 Like
I watched the entirety of both sessions. It was at least 2, if not 3 hours of material. The second group was definitely better. And maybe I’m insensitive, but I just didn’t find most of what was in that clip offensive. The flip comment was obviously hyperbole, she’s not going to flip a horse over onto herself.
As I’ve said earlier, I wasn’t a huge fan of the exercises or the smacking while standing around. I didn’t think there was enough explanation as to the “why” for a lot of things. But she was also quick with praise when deserved, and I do think the session did a nice job identifying those who have ridden entirely made horses that get regular training rides/prepped vs those who have not always had that luxury (or catch ride a ton) so can get on and ride anything.
9 Likes
I am so sad for your daughter that you allow that to happen to her. No championship, scholarship, etc is worth that type of cruelty in your childhood. And just because you think it’s ok for children to be treated that way, doesn’t make it right. I have also seen verbal abuse at all kinds of sport activities. It is why we now have Safe Sport- too many turned a blind eye- and apparently still do so.
9 Likes
If this is true than high level shows should be banned.
No excuse for telling a youth to flip a horse. EVER.
7 Likes
Completely agree. I am looking at this forum out of interest from the other side of the pond, where one clip of Katie’s session has caused a furore on social media akin to the Mark Todd tree branch video a few years ago.
There has been a lot of comment at cross-purposes because some people have only seen the clips linked to the COTH report. May have not seen, or even know about, another clip from the same session when she talks about giving horses a “good licking,” or flipping it over, as well as dismissing the views of animal rights activists. Those remarks are included in a segment shared on whats app by professional riders before being posted on Facebook by the Dutch Olympian Albert Voorn. I was sent it by another Olympic rider whom I would regard as quite tough, yet who was appalled. Parking on one side whether or not Katie would actually practice what she preached, in the UK and continental Europe we are preoccupied with “social licence to operate.” Governing bodies and other institutions are spending a fortune on ethics commissions and PR advice to try to win over the hearts and minds of the general public who are increasingly questioning whether riding a horse is a nice thing to do at all. I would imagine that at FEI HQ they are tearing out their hair over Katie Prudent, never mind this clip bearing a prominent USEF logo.
15 Likes
This is a bit funny because if anyone knows what the real world is like, it’s me. I am a chronic illness/pain patient with 27 surgeries behind me as of December (at 44 years of age). I have a great supportive husband, but no family to support me.
Despite this, I work an amazing full-time job in publishing medical research. I love what I do and am able to teach sessions, workshops, and seminars at conferences and congresses around the world. My specialty is patient collaboration in the publication of research, which allows me to improve patient lives based on my own experience.
My husband and I make a decent living, own a cute little farm, and have horses and ponies we’ve bred and/or raised ourselves. We both decided that we wanted jobs in the “real world” for the better pay and better benefits, which allows us to enjoy the horses and compete as we wish, and to never be in a situation where we are pressured by a client or pro to put the horses’ best interest to the side in pursuit of human goals (which we both experienced working in the horse world).
So yes, I live in the real world, and I know that all the qualities I’ve spoken about—including respect and kindness—get you a lot further than telling people to toughen up or pull themselves up by their bootstraps. I am one of the toughest people I know, but my circumstances have made me compassionate and kind as well. There’s no place in my life for the behavior at the center of this thread that some continue to defend.
So perhaps in the scheme of things, I place importance on a different set of values. Ribbons and glory are fleeting—who you are and how you treat others is forever.
40 Likes
2 Likes
I must be old school as well. Nothing in that video was even close to bullying or offensive to me.
It was obvious that her saying “flip him” was hyperbole. That rider was letting a strong horse say “no” and call the shots. Amazing, she could get him stopped three strides after a turn, but not on the line? Baloney, she needs to sit back and say WHOA NOW.
I find it hard, but not impossible, to believe there were riders there who had never saddled a horse? Really?
15 Likes
That was a rumor started by an unreliable source.
8 Likes
From the Jaffer article:
"Kaylee Monserrate, who called Prudent’s coaching “incredible for me,” said “her fast corrections for any mistakes I made kept me safe during the 1.45m schooling we were typically doing.”
She did, however, suggest some of Prudent’s comments, “could have been done so a little more tactfully, such as insinuating flipping a horse, etc., which is not okay.”
She noted, “The most learning here needs to be the industry as a whole, including the trainers in it. How students in a horsemanship clinic such as this one have never saddled a horse or properly changed their stirrup length is incredible and mind-blowing."
5 Likes
You’re right, it IS a shame that in the year 2024 the coaches “we” (as a sport) hold in such high esteem have still not developed enough self awareness and emotional intelligence to learn how to educate people properly and conduct themselves appropriately in a public setting, to the point where they can’t even teach a clinic without being problematic. It is definitely a shame.
32 Likes
That’s from someone who has ridden with Katie but was not at the clinic. I find the comment about the saddles hard to believe, and also consider the original source questionable, so I would love to hear from someone (the barn manager?) who was there.
6 Likes
I mean, it’s possible, but if it’s true - holy 
1 Like
The stirrup thing though, that doesn’t shock me because I KNOW how but conformationally can’t do it, and therefore could not demonstrate for a clinician.
14 Likes
This is an incredibly dangerous viewpoint to have… did we not learn that from the GM debacle? No human being should ever be regarded as if they are a god. People are people, with all of their imperfections, and even the most successful people have to be held accountable for their words and actions.
45 Likes
I can’t do it either. I think I can conformationally but my leathers are always so effing thick that they don’t move through the bars nicely like the former non-lined leathers do.
#excuses, I know.
6 Likes
Very poor writing on Jaffer’s part, with regard to the comments from Monserrate. Jaffer should have made it very clear that Monserrate did not participate in the clinic. From the way it’s written, a reader would assume otherwise and perhaps give that rider’s opinion more weight in the discussion.
6 Likes
This sums it up for me:
Eventer Halley Anne commented, “What I learned from this is that if someone tells me to flip my horse over, I will leave the lesson. Hyperbole or not. If that’s the best way an instructor can think of to explain what they want me to do, then that is not the lesson for me or my horse. That being said, I liked her tough teaching style.”
Tough teaching style is one thing and at the level those kids are riding they should be used to challenging, thinking instruction- but advocating for the abuse of the horse and even mentioning animal rights advocates to me shows me a couple things- KMP is clueless about the impact of social media and viral videos and the potential detrimental outcomes of these to our sport, and she is likely very serious about flipping the horse and beating it (Lickin’)- neither of which actually solve a problem or discipline a horse. At best you have a wired horse and frustrated rider and at worst you have an injured/dead horse and rider.
I like tough and challenging coaches and find coddling to be ineffective and boring but if one ever suggested to me to do what KMP suggested to my horse I’d be leaving that coach immediately.
And I would agree that those kids do know how to tack up. It’s a ridiculous assumption that they don’t. They may come from barns where the grooms tack up but that’s no fault of the riders- that’s the trainers and the program.
23 Likes
That is how I read it, myself.
1 Like
