I just don’t think we see eye to eye on this. I don’t see the instructor as being overly harsh, you do.
I guess the rider should have done more research on this clinician, if they were offended by how she teaches.
Not following basic instruction seems to point towards needing remedial help that the rest of the group did not need.
Should a rider in this case be excused, so as not to drag the rest of the group to their level?
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You make so many assumptions that I can’t keep up. Carry on, I’m going to play somewhere else.
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Clearly we don’t see eye to eye, because I don’t see where I’m assuming anything. I’m talking about my own perception, versus yours.
But ok, play on.
By assuming the rider isn’t listening or following instructions.
By assuming the riders are remedial.
These riders were invited based on the placings and qualifications.
You make a lot of assumptions.
Stop making excuses for poor communication skills of KP.
Stop making excuses for KP comments of “flipping the horse” and running it into a fence and beating it with a stick (crop).
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Do you think she meant this literally, or figuratively? Do you think she meant “do whatever it takes to get him stopped on the line, despite him being strong” or do you think she wanted the rider to actually flip the horse over?
This “let’s take everything literally without considering the context” trend has got to stop.
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Hyperbole or not - this is a professional setting on a national if not, international setting. It is unprofessional.
In my work, if I made comments like that to my clients, I would be fired.
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Kind of ironically, if the student “being abused” is who I think it is, she is certainly more than familiar with stopping in a straight line and (probably) using the fence to stop too 
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I have no doubt Katie meant to flip or beat a horse. It was not hyperbole.
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I agree.
To all those supporting KMP do you agree with beating or flipping a horse? Do you believe these are effective tools? Do you believe, if hyperbole, these were effective teaching metaphors that could not be construed as anything but a metaphor?
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Wait, some people think she seriously wanted that rider to flip her horse over in a clinic?
What???
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Two notes: this is genuinely not to divert the thread, but I think the fact that the clinics are less accessible when they were on the USET website with a free membership has no doubt made people more inclined to judge on inflammatory clips. I found the new TV streaming Clip My Horse to be very clunky and unfriendly when it was introduced, I always watched previously.
That being said…
I’ve audited clinics with Lucinda Green and Joe Fargis, neither of whom (I don’t think) have the reputation for being cream puffs, and they just didn’t seem to go in for the George Morris-style histrionics of “you ride like a soup sandwich” or “birdbrain” type b.s. They said tough stuff-- I remember LG telling one rider she was “spoiling her horse” by not being firm with her (which the rider admitted herself in the debriefing). I don’t think there is anything abusive about shouting stick and leg and so forth, or telling someone that something is wrong and not up to standard.
But there seems to be a particular kind of instructor who seems to cultivate a type of nasty “mean” persona that I do think has been put up with for too long in the horse world, and in sports in general. An instructor can be tough and blunt without being rude and personally insulting. In fact, a lot of terrible instructors cover up their terribleness with being so shitty to people, everyone is afraid to ask questions. I’m not persuaded that being the type of coach who throws a tantrum every time you do something wrong accomplishes the goal of learning.
I’m not a good rider, but I know when I started taking lessons from less emotional instructors, I rode better. I mean, how does being called a “birdbrain” or raving about animal rights activists make someone a better rider?
It sounds like there were many good moments in the clinic, from those who watched it, but I doubt the good moments occurred because of the insults. KP isn’t going to change, but moving forward, I hope there are coaches who can be tough without making their corrections personal.
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What did she mean then?
What was flipping a horse a metaphor for?
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Reefing him to get him to respect the word/command “WHOA”. Cavalry halt. Face on the fence.
Whatever it takes, to get him to STOP ON THE LINE instead of blowing the rider off and saying “stuff it”.
We’ve all been on a horse who for whatever reason is not interested in doing something that we KNOW they know. My mare knows a half halt, and she knows the word WHOA. Yet, when she’s fired up about something, both seem to be difficult and I have to get more firm about enforcing it.
But if people can’t read through that, and see what the instructor was saying… maybe stick to simple instructors who won’t ever say things in hyperbole?
Man, now I’m thinking of all the things I say in hyperbole and I might end up in jail. “I’d KILL to do XYZ”. To the clink I go, that’s a threat I guess?
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Just throwing it out there but could it be that these young riders were not riding to the level they normally perform at BECAUSE of the berating by KMP?
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The issue is also that we know these BNRs and BNTs do terrible things to the horses so could potentially mean it.
To me…and this is just me… If my coach wanted me to do what you’re saying, saying flip him over would not compute to put his face on the fence. Saying put his face on the fence or even take his back teeth out would make more sense…
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I can see how, if you believe the clinician to have literally meant and intended for the rider to FLIP HER HORSE… how this would be horribly offensive to some.
What I don’t understand is how anyone would take that comment literally. The comment that made me cringe is that “horses need a lickin’”. I’m all for effective whip use (ie, don’t nag, use it like you mean it), but I don’t think there’s a way to interpret “lickin’” in a whip sense with anything but a beating.
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My opinion: there would probably be the same people offended by “take his back teeth out.”
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I doubt that.
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Katie literally meant to use violence to teach the horse to comply or suffer severe consequences and that is not an acceptable way to teach horses, youth or future instructors.
Period.
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