Live Stream of Wellington Young Rider Clinic January 4-7

[millerra]

@Knights_Mom

After reading this EnablerFest it’s clear humans can’t be trusted to universally act responsibly with their horses. The gaslighting here is terrible.

The problem is actually that there are some humans who can’t be trusted to act responsibly period. Not with horses, or children, or dogs, or -heck- other humans. For an industry, I think the best way to handle it is to be blunt and honest. Yes, KMP said some unfortunate things. No, ethical and responsible trainers do NOT beat or flip their horses. We, as an industry, are always learning better ways to train and interact w/ our beloved horses. But, these are 1200 lb+ animals who can literally kill us w/ a sudden move. Do they need to respect us? Yes. Sometimes they need a bit of a reminder and sometimes we, as puny humans, need to work a bit harder to get their attention.

We can’t help keyboard warriors except through a calm, clear consistent voice. Remember the Rich Strike fiasco. I thought the outrider did an extremely professional job. W/ those that said he shouldn’t have reacted the way he did, I’d say “come here, let this amped up, 3yr old colt bite you, and let’s see what you’d do”.

People are so divorced from working with large animals that they have NO idea the damage they can do - from cows to horses to -heck - bison at yellowstone. Or… back to jumping and riding… not listening can also be disastrous… and that listening piece - comes from effective, not abusive, training.

[Midge]

I’ve watched about four or five of the videos so far. I haven’t run across the one with the flipping comment but watching her teach, she clearly left the George Morris school of instructing behind. She appears to be a terrific clinician.

[Midge]

@DownYonder

Edited to add that what DID offend me was the camera operator’s inability to focus on the horses as they were jumping the panel near the rail. I’m not sure what he/she found so fascinating about that empty spot in the ring.

The number of times they were not focused on the rider doing the exercise was really annoying. I also think Luke got some boy points from Katie. She said something about Luke needing to leave because he had work to do at the barn. Whether he did or not, I am 100% certain Missy made sure Katie knew Luke worked in the barn.

[Inimitable]

USEF edited out the “I’d flip him” comment, as well as the “smack and back” segment where she’s teaching them the proper use of the stick, during which not a single rider smacked their horse just to ‘practice’ like some have claimed.

I watched the whole first session and caught most of the second session live. You know what? None of these shenanigans happened in the second session because all of those ‘kids’ (they’re not really kids) watched and LEARNED from the first session. So everyone knocking Katie’s communication style can get out with that - if you actually watch and pay attention to the whole clinic, every single horse and rider came out of it improved.

I’m a thousand times more offended by KMP’s letter in support of GM. And, yes, she was colossally dumb for her poor choice of words (ie. “Flip him and lick him”) in this age of social media and outrage culture. But if you remove those things from the equation and focus only on these 90 minutes, I’d kill* to participate in a clinic like this. If someone called me up today and said, “I’ve got a horse for you to ride in a KMP tomorrow, can you get here?” You better believe I’d be on a plane tonight.**

*hyperbole
**not hyperbole

[MHM]

@Inimitable

*hyperbole
**not hyperbole

See, that’s a very handy guide to include. Lol.

[dags]

I really wish I had the time to strip the video and piece together the missing contexts and all the nuggets of wisdom that were shared in those 90 minutes (“carry your hands” needs to be stitched in bright yellow letters on nearly every headstall in this country). But unlike whomever engineered the original hit piece, I don’t have that luxury (also, my video editing PC and I are near fisticuffs right now).

I’m also getting increasingly more incensed at Mr. Voorn for dropping this bomb and then full on walking away without any follow-up comment or response. What a chicken feces.

[Inimitable]

I’m replying to myself here, because context matters, lol. But I happen to be one those “animal rights people” that KP is talking about. I am mostly vegan, always vegetarian; I run a small farm animal sanctuary and all of my horses are OTTBs who needed a soft landing and/or true rescues out of the slaughter pipeline. I also happen to have competed H/J at a pretty high level and am bringing horses along to hopefully get back in the ring above 1m. Am I going to pass any of today’s internet purity tests? Absolutely not. But I guarantee I am 1000% kinder to ALL animals in my day-to-day life than any of these keyboard warriors could ever claim to be.

[Inimitable]

I am also finding myself increasingly heated that it’s a WOMAN who is taking all of this heat. I’ve ridden in two clinics in the last two years with BNTs (not H/J) who happen to be men and who happen to call people dummies on the regular. Not a peep about them and their ‘communication styles.’ They’re both fantastic clinicians. But Katie’s better.

[Midge]

@dags

I’m also getting increasingly more incensed at Mr. Voorn for dropping this bomb and then full on walking away without any follow-up comment or response. What a chicken feces

You know she kicked his a$$ somewhere 40 years ago and he’s held a grudge ever since.

[Limerick]

Oh thank goodness a trainer coaching at this level was “mostly” constructive! Let’s just move on and not learn anything from the fact someone made a video of her extremely questionable statements and a top European rider felt it reflected badly on USEF! And let’s definitely ignore that she had nothing positive to say about the sport at the lower levels and believes there is an obvious way a teenager needs to behave right after he was raped.

That whole “when someone shows you who they are” nonsense is not for the tippy top of this sport amIright?

[Scribbler]

Well I meant the nasty stuff. Honestly I didn’t retain any of the useful.stuff because the nasty stuff over powered it. I am sure her clinic as a whole had useful advice

[enjoytheride]

Katie Prudent interview from 2017

"The way it’s been dummied down in today’s world, it’s amazing that anyone can ride at all. The sport has become for the fearful, talentless amateur. That’s what the sport has been dummied down to.

Unfortunately, because of money, the fearful talentless amateur can rise to a certain level.

The sport makes me sick nowadays."

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/conversation-katie-prudent/?fbclid=IwAR3Ev7rrtYxDDtnLh_JhqNQ28JN9qPqN44eV3CZHGOcxYvLC9PqqrK7JG3E&mibextid=xfxF2i

[Alterration]

That article was from 2017 lol not really a response.

[Scribbler]

@Midge

I’ve watched about four or five of the videos so far. I haven’t run across the one with the flipping comment but watching her teach, she clearly left the George Morris school of instructing behind. She appears to be a terrific clinician.

If you look upthread you will see that apparently the offending comments were edited out and now only exist in the shock horror compilation

[Inimitable]

Huh?

I see you edited. Yes, this article has already been a part of the conversation. I don’t take offense to her 2017 comments, there’s a lot of cold truth in them. I do take offense to her GM letter. If she deserves to be canceled it’s because of that.

[Scribbler]

So I teach young adults. I am very very careful in my language. I don’t swear, obviously. But also I never make a joke at a students expense and I never make a reference to their personal appearance unless it’s an obvious Halloween costume I can admire. And I never call out a student in front of other people.

Obviously it’s different because my feedback and grading papers is private and online.

However, I am very aware that if I said something stupid that launched a complaint that would be taken seriously by my supervisors. And that if I said something stupid that a student videotaped and posted on IG it would likely be career ending.

It’s possible there is a bit more latitude with male coaches teaching boys in one of the contact sports. Are there any videos of elite football clinics or camps? It is very possible there is less latitude for women teaching girls in a sport that involves animals.

I also think that if there was a dog training class online where a trainer said “if that was my dog, I’d choke him to death before I let him do that,” there would be uproar.

[atl_hunter]

@Scribbler

I also think that if there was a dog training class online where a trainer said “if that was my dog, I’d choke him to death before I let him do that,” there would be uproar.

If the dog was lunging at a child and the only way to save the child was to do that to the dog, then we would be missing some context (dog bite survivor here). What has the priority? Safety? The dog’s life?

I agree in the edited format everyone would be in an uproar. But when the full footage was released it would be a nothingburger.

[Scribbler]

@atl_hunter

@Scribbler

I also think that if there was a dog training class online where a trainer said “if that was my dog, I’d choke him to death before I let him do that,” there would be uproar.

If the dog was lunging at a child and the only way to save the child was to do that to the dog, then we would be missing some context (dog bite survivor here). What has the priority? Safety? The dog’s life?

I agree in the edited format everyone would be in an uproar. But when the full footage was released it would be a nothingburger.

Well, presumably the dog isn’t lunging at a child in a formal obedience class. And there are ways to communicate effective level of force without saying “I would throttle that dog, hang him from a tree, he would be bleeding.”

Thing was, there was no overt horse abuse in the clinic. All the fuss here is about language. That’s because it’s easier to hear language than see what’s going on in videos. The language stays with us. KP was guilty merely of hyperbole.

But she stands accused of “fostering” a tolerance for animal abuse. Just like a dog trainer that says “I would rip his head off, make him bleed if he doesn’t listen” even though no one on the obedience class is doing that, or expected to.

That’s what I mean about watching our language in the internet age.

[HipNo34]

Which doesn’t help anyone’s cause except the original editor of the FlipAHorseGate video.

Oh. And along with CMH’s “video unavailable” message on Session 1 (at least what it said as of this AM, before I went out to deliver pre-snow storm supplies) … and again, every time I looked, it would still play if you press “play.”

Also, the dog analogies (and the discussion of how easily we can get hurt) keep reminding me of the time I saw a woman being dragged off the sidewalk and into traffic by her large dog on a flexie (whole other thing that sets me off). She kept saying “please” as in “Please, puppy! Don’t do that!”

[enjoytheride]

I’d thought that the clips were edited together to make her look bad and the entire video was much better, however the interview from 2017 and her GM comments make me wonder why she’s still teaching if the sport makes her sick and there are too many fearful talentless amateurs.