And maybe they’re hiding something about that care
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Or maybe it’s just a busy place with a very full schedule, so they have to be sure that all the horses will come out to the ring on time, not after some of the kids putter around for an extra 20 minutes.
Of course the kids should know how to do everything themselves. But I don’t think the full care barn business model is necessarily a sign of anything nefarious.
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I’m very much an adult amateur who never made it to this level as a Junior.
I did a clinic this weekend with a well known trainer. He announced, in front of everyone, “have you been following along with the clinic with KMP in Wellington? Well, you wouldn’t have had any problems.” Almost the biggest compliment I got all weekend. I can control my HOT horse. Granted, she is mine, but if I can stop her, I can stop anything. He used me as an example of using my outside rein to the kids in the clinic who were having a hard time whoa-ing.
KMP could’ve changed some tack (George has certainly done this mid clinic).
She could’ve had another rider who was successful at it, get on that horse to show that it can be done.
This is my AA brain just coming up with solutions on the spot as I type.
Clinics should be constructive. We are all just beating a dead horse at this point, but I’ll echo the others that what she said was not a useful tool to help the kid(s) actually stop the horse.
Hell, I’d even be more understanding if she told them to see-saw until it stopped.
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I’m not going to comment on the content of what Katie said. I think that has been thoroughly covered here and elsewhere.
Just popping in to add, the overall impression Katie left was of a grouchy old “Get Off My Lawn” “Everything Was Better/Tougher/Stronger In My Day” vibe.
Not helpful or conducive to a clinic or to teaching in general.
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This seems like the waning influence of Pony Club, in the U.S. and U.K. at least. Within just a few decades back, Pony Club was kind of a big deal, and it definitely taught horse care first and foremost. The method of shortening stirrups with feet in was Pony Club chapter and verse.
I wonder whether Pony Club is just about to disappear?
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There’s a Pony Club lesson plan for this online, which I know because I went looking when I realized that I myself (nearly 25 combined years around horses and a half dozen different trainers) never learned how!
Also, re the full service thing being discussed. I’ve softened my criticism of this after following discussions here and on social about keeping things moving efficiency-wise and also for maintaining standards at shows (from discussion about DIY’ing it).
I am wondering if programs can maybe build ground lessons into their, well, programs as a means of addressing this. Having more judges ask horsemanship questions as part of Big Eq testing may help drive a need for this (beyond the obvious need, sometimes added incentive helps).
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I’m not picking on you @floppyammy, just using your post as a jumping off point for something I’ve been thinking about in general, not just as it relates to the now-infamous clinic.
But what happened to “standing on the shoulders of giants?” The concept of iterative and institutional knowledge over the course of generations? Learning from those who came before us? Some things WERE better back in Katie’s day. Look at all of the posts in this thread alone - and across COTH on a daily basis - bemoaning the loss of basic horsemanship; the death of the ‘barn rat;’ the rise of buying your way to the top of the sport instead of learning how to develop and train your own horses.
And OF COURSE some things are better now. Horse welfare, for example, which is where we all agree Katie fell way short of current standards and thinking.
As for her bedside manner, who cares if she was a bit gruff or grouchy (that wasn’t my impression at all, btw, so perception is everything)? She’s not YOUR trainer. And OF COURSE she thinks her way is the best way. No clinician - old school or not - is going to come in and teach concepts and techniques that they don’t think are best practice. As has been mentioned several times already, these young riders have the knowledge and experience to take what they like and leave the rest from this clinic. It’s 90 minutes of instruction out of thousands and thousands of hours in the saddle.
For context (it matters, lol), I am not all that old myself (44), lest I get written off as a curmudgeonly 70-year-old with an axe to grind. Though I do wish people in general would get off my lawn. 
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@Inimitable I think this is a good question, and one worth exploring.
Just a general response, I think in the time since Katie’s heyday (60s - 80s), people (g) have become disillusioned with Giants. So many institutions, be it the government, the church, coaches, sports idols, etc. have been proven to have feet of clay. Think of how pivotal the Vietnam war was. Watergate. The Pedophilia scandal with catholic priests in the 80s. The revered coaches whose legacies have been dismantled (Joe Paterno, Jimmy Williams, etc.)
Younger generations have been taught to question authority, not to blindly assume that their way is the best way or the right way.
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I somewhat agree, in that blind assumptions are bad for everyone involved: I think we should all question authority.
However - let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. Should people coach like Lombardi nowadays? (Trying to steer this back to style of coaching vs. using an example of far greater crimes). I would argue that the KNOWLEDGE should not be discounted.
I say that I think we should continue to stand on the shoulders of giants - but not just straight up. Not form a tall column. Leaf out. If the base is strong, it can hold many branches.
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For sure the work ethic, sweat and constant accumulation of knowledge was responsible for huge successes and spreading of knowledge.
But there were also things that were not so cool like the use of force. So there is a need to evolve past the use of force. This struggle is as old as Xenophon and even older given his need to speak on it. So if we are to refer to the wisdom of the past, ancient Greece seems about the oldest. So let’s follow THAT wisdom, that teaching.
It’s not us changing the rules, it was those who started using the force.
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We agree! High five!
It’s an interesting discussion and thanks to those who have responded for taking me up on it. I’ll try to come back later and say more after I’m done with chores and hopefully riding a horse since it’s no longer 2 degrees outside.
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See this I don’t understand. She had many useful things to say. Things that the riders did and they worked. Since even the riders who struggled most with the exercise ended up doing it successfully, I don’t follow what you mean.
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Midge, did she offer something really constructive to the grey horse rider AFTER she told them what she personally would do?
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I recall KMP explaining to someone the difference between being firm and being rough when halting the horse after the jump. I also recall her telling one of the riders that she needed to give as soon as the horse started to respond and not to keep the pressure on until the horse actually stopped.
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I don’t know where in the video that happened. But you can watch the progression of the exercise on the videos and I’m trying to picture her saying that after the riders have all successfully done the exercise.
That is one of the only things I am interested in knowing. I find her way of instructing very irritating and don’t want to sit through it again. Maybe someone else can chime in.
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Longtime trainer here.
It is a 100% copout to insist on full service so that kids are not late for their lessons. It’s abdicates teaching, it abdicates creating an environment with consequences, it abdicates preparing the kid for life in the real world .
If the kid is late for the lesson, they get talked to and the parents get a text explaining why it’s so important to get there at least half an hour early (not fair to the horse, not fair to the other participants in the lesson, not fair to the horse). If it happens again they don’t get to ride. Of course the responsibility really lies with the parents getting there early enough and they have to be in the loop.
This sounds like sooooo much work! And it risks having a moment of discomfort, potentially talking to the busy parents. Actual management of the students. It is way more work… But you end up with kids know their way around a Horse.
I have no respect for that kind of program. I think it’s lazy, and I think it is problematic for creating young adults who can take care of themselves.
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Wowl You managed both judgey and self-important in your post.
As a busy parent with a full time job, I can assure you that most parents are doing the best they can between juggling work, school, multiple kids with multiple activities. Should kids know how to tack up? Yes. Is it great if their parents can swing getting them there 30 mins early and staying 30 mins past their lesson time so they can groom? Also yes. But in this day and age, busy barns that have grooms helping or doing the tacking makes everyone’s day go a little more smoothly and is incredibly helpful to parents who don’t have 2 full hours plus drive time to commit to Suzy’s riding lessons.
You don’t have to like it, you don’t have to have it be part of your personal program, but let’s maybe be a little kinder to the kind of people this program helps and whose kid wouldn’t have time to participate or would always be late because mom’s job is relentless and meetings always run over, or Johnny has t-ball right before lessons and it also always runs over.
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I’ve worked in these barns. I stand by what I said.
The kids usually actually all want to do the grooming and tacking. It’s unfortunate that their schedules are so compressed. It’s a crying shame that the parents do not understand and are not educated to understand that grooming, tacking, hand grazing, learning to wrap, watching lessons when they can… That’s all part of the experience. It’s part of the educational experience that will make that child a better grown-up.
I stand by my opinion that learning to ride horses should not be a zoom in zoom out kind of experience. I am fully aware that it requires a minimum of a two hour stay at the barn. I’m fully aware that kids have tons of different after school commitments “these days“. And I think that’s a problem.
If occasionally there’s a conflict of events and the kid have to have the groom either tack the horse up, or put it away for them, I get it. No problem. But if the kid thinks that’s just the normal way of being a rider/horse owner… Yes, I have a huge problem with it. Drop T-ball. Drop soccer. Drop one of the three or four activities.
When I was a teenager. It became very clear to me. I could either spend time with my horse or do the other stuff. I chose the horse. I did do modern dance and participated in the yearly musical. That was it. I also got my school to give me Credit for PE by riding, after a presentation to the headmaster.
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But the 2020s are very different than your childhood. Two working parents, with multiple kids who all have activities (Johnny in the t-ball example was the little brother of the rider). Want to get into a highly competitive high school or college, or a scholarship because the cost of college has tripled in 20 years? Good grades and riding horses isn’t going to get it done. Those activities you are telling them to drop are.
And the barn isn’t right down the street anymore, it’s at least 30+ min schlep, because all the farms that existed in your area when you were a kid are now housing developments.
You obviously get to have your opinion. But the reality is that if all barns operated as you insist your does, the pool of kids riding is going to continue to shrink. And I happen to think that we should be trying any way possible to support as many kids who love horses in their riding endeavors however we can, even if it doesn’t come in your ideal package of immersing themselves in the grooming/tacking/hand grazing each time they come to the barn.
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