Because they aren’t apples to apples. It’s hard to explain to someone without direct experience like this with horses. If you know, you know. I LOVE my dog and it’s nothing like my relationship with my horse.
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What does love have to do with this? We’re talking about care of animals. Some here insist that riders should always be the ones to do the grooming. I simply asked if that should apply to dog owners, since many don’t bother learning to groom their breed and instead take them to professionals. Both horses and dogs are animals that rely on humans to care for them. Does the owner of the animal have to be the one who performs that care or is it acceptable to have someone else do it?
Grooming a dog according to its breed is different than just brushing and bathing your dog. You really are trying to compare apples to chevrolets.
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Lots of people take their dogs to a groomer for a simple brush and bath.
This doesn’t make sense if one thinks about basic grooming for most horses vs. grooming the wide variety of breeds and coat types for dogs. For the most part, horse grooming is the same for every horse: curry, brush, brush out mane and tail, pick feet. Now, there is variation in terms of other things, such as pulling manes or not, clipping fetlocks, if the horse has socks or other places dirt shows up more easily, etc., but even that is pretty basic stuff.
Dogs, on the other hand, have a vast array of particular clips for the breed or usage, different hair types, and so on. We have four dogs. One is short haired and although he sheds like it is his job, his grooming is very simple and we do it. Another is a poodle mix, but he has wiry fur and so it doesn’t get clipped; we just have to bathe and shed him as necessary. We have another poodle mix who has the curly poodle hair, so we get him clipped with a puppy cut when his afro gets too big. I could clip him myself but I am not good at it and the results aren’t worth my effort. Our fourth dog is a complete mutt who has fur but it is so fine that when it grows past a certain length it gets very, very matted and greasy. So, he goes to the groomer every few months to get clipped and cleaned up. Four different dogs, some sharing a breed between them, four different types of grooming needs.
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My issue is with this entire dog grooming vs horse grooming argument is that now we are talking about occasional maintenance grooming with daily grooming. Dog grooming/clipping is more similar to touch up clipping/body clipping.
Do these people who have their dogs groomed not bother to brush or clean their dogs in between appointments, or do they take their dogs to the dog groomer every day?
When Fido goes for a walk outside and it’s wet, do they hand the dog off to someone else to dry its feet, so they dry them on their own, or do they let Fido traipse around the house with wet feet leaving paw marks about?
I also have an issue with the argument about work and school. What about weekends? Parents generally don’t work weekends. There’s no school. Horses and kids don’t generally show every single weekend. So why not form a relationship with your horse on days where you can? Grooming isn’t just about getting the horse clean. Tacking isn’t just about slapping a saddle and bridle on. It’s about awareness of your horse on any given day - long before you throw a leg over your horse. Is he back sore? Did she give you trouble picking a hind leg? Does he have thrush? Do you even recognize thrush when you see it?
There was an argument upstream about grooms being better at racking up. Silly argument. Are we saying our children (and parents) are not capable of learning? Occasionally, even in a full service program, you may need to pitch in. Even the YouTuber mentioned upstream had to take her horse back to the barn and u tack him when she didn’t make the finals at Derby Finals.
Also, there’s a lot of pushback on the idea that some barns may be prepping their horses, yet just this week on TPH Amateur group there was a person posting that they had JUST experienced that exact scenario. People, it’s real. Denial is not helping the problem, it’s not helping the sport, and it sure is heck is not helping the horse. Can we all keep a more open mind in these discussions and not be so fast to shut people down when they speak of harsh realities of this sport?
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It’s really very simple: they are both animals that rely on humans for their care, and it doesn’t matter to them who performs that care.
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So grooming a poodle at a pet shop and grooming a horse to ride are totally different.
Grooming a poodle is more like clipping a horse, thinning the mane, banging the tail, I would say ears and whiskers if people still did that. Braiding. And yes, we often call in pros for this. And nobody lets lesson kid near their horse with scissors because you will get bowl cut forelock or other horrors!
Grooming a horse daily, especially if the horse is kept in a dry stall or paddock or has a blanket, is just daily maintenance and we would also expect dog owners to untangle things, knock off obvious mud, check for ticks or guck stuck between toes or etc daily.
The big part of grooming a horse is also tacking up. It’s true small children on big horses might find this challenging and need some supervision. Also the coach should do a tack check. However it’s not just high end full service barns that might employ grooms. Many lesson factory programs run their horses in back to back lessons and only the first child of the day needs to tack up.
Obviously anyone who is progressing on to be an independent rider and horse owner needs to know how to tack up safely. But total beginners may need quite a bit of support and it might not fit into some beginner lesson programs. And obviously for pro or adult ammy riders who are pressed for time, there’s no “moral advantage” to tacking up their own horse, given that we know they are perfectly capable.
I doubt very much that a junior at the medals level doesnt know how to tack up their own horse…I would expect a certain percentage have even been working students to big name trainers (true working students not muck for lessons exploitation). On the other hand, if I were borrowing a horse for a clinic or catch ride I would absolutely defer to the horses groom on how his tack went on, where the saddle goes, pads and gadgets and what not.
The equivalent to tacking up a horse is putting on your dogs outdoor collar and leash, or choke chain or prong collar, or harness or raincoat or sweater or paw booties. We expect dog owners to be able to do this as needed!
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I believe they removed the contentious bits
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@Arlomine and @wanderlust: Thank you both for the thoughtful exchange. I think this is a very productive discussion.
I started in riding lessons where the horses were actually brought to the ring. We weren’t allowed anywhere near the rest of the barn area. This was a million years ago. It was the model for a lot of barns back then: riders showed up for lessons, hopped on, rode, got off, handed the horse off, and left. Yes, we learned to ride. Yes, we learned confidence from that progression. **But that was a different experience than what riders learn in the programs where you learn to groom, check your tack, tack up, groom, and all the rest. **
@Arlomine has a program that requires X. Riders and parents need to understand that program and agree to it. If you don’t have time for that, then there you are.
@wanderlust and her child need a different program that does not require that longer commitment. Is there a program for them? I hope so. We as a sport need to encourage everyone who wants to learn to ride, enjoy horses, etc. Some riders won’t continue to the next steps. That’s OK: those riders may come back later on, or maybe just become supporters of riding in some other way.
Good discussion! Thanks for giving me an opportunity to remember the way-back days.
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Nope, horses are not sports equipment. And I’ve kept multiple horses at home for years and years.
But.
Where does this argument end?
If you’re not doing the feeding of your horse every day, you’re not a Real Horseperson.
If you’re not studying equine nutrition and deciding what is the best diet for your equine partner, then you’re not a Real Horseperson.
If you’re not holding your own horse for the farrier every 5 weeks, you’re not a Real Horseperson.
If you’re not studying the science of equine podiatry and discussing the various attributes of barefoot vs shod or aluminum vs steel or pour in pads vs rim pads with frog support, then you’re not a Real Horseperson.
If you’re not on hand for every vet appointment, you’re not a Real Horseperson.
If you’re not studying equine massage and physio and can debate the attributes of different modalities (Masterson or Linda Tellington Jones or Jec Ballou or or or) then you’re not a Real Horseperson.
For goodness sake can we just allow people to enjoy horses at the level of involvement that fits into their life without all sorts of judgment?
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No.
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I think what @Arlomine was getting at is that if you just want to RIDE a horse whether in competition or training that’s not really enjoying all the horse has to offer. There is so much more benefit and understanding that comes with more involvement in care, grooming, post-ride care, etc. Yeah, some folks just want to ride or only have time to ride and that’s it. But then they only are experiencing one dimension of the relationship. Also, getting back to the education of the future top RIDERS of our sport hopefully they would all want to understand all the dimensions that the care and relationship with a horse has to offer, not just the riding aspect. In todays modern crazy busy world horses can be a meditation–barn time can be seen as a retreat, and the modern human may need to put the multi tasking aside to simply relax and enjoy the moments. Horses tend to be our mirrors–if we are rushing in and out and are less than zen they will tell us. It’s just a matter of if we humans listen or not.
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Well this has turned into an interesting discussion of riding programs and the amount of non-riding contact as student has. Getting back to the original claim, though, I would be shocked if the riders in the clinic couldn’t saddle their own horses. Perhaps not in the precise way one instructor may require, but adequate!
Let me share a story of me not being able to saddle a horse. My old horse passed away after 20 years of ownership and many rides. To fill in some horsey time, I volunteered at a therapeutic riding stable. I had to undergo training on precisely how to handle, groom, and tack up a horse! It wasnt that I was doing something wrong or didnt know how, it was that I had to learn their procedures so that the horses had some consistency in their lives when handled by many volunteers. And it took some concentration to not fall back into old habits!
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I just wanted to bump this to say Mia didn’t have a rail all week in the 3* division at Global. She was 5th in the GP Qualifier, and had a minor steering confusion to the second jump in the jump off of the GP, which left her out of the ribbons. (And she was the only junior rider there).
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