Long-A$$ Horsemanship clinics: Best schedule?

[mvp]

ETA: Here’s the basic question–

If you could optimize a weekend horsemanship clinic, how would you do it?

Guy does a demo? A big group session? How long? Any small-- or private rides that are shorter?

And the original post that provides context:

I have the pleasure of meeting a guy local to me who is a minor Buck Brannaman acolyte. He let me watch him ride a colt and ask questions. I liked what I saw.** He’s a nice guy, too, who would like to build a little clinic business.

So I’d like to see if I can bring him to my barn for one clinic… hopefully to become a repeat thing.** Everyone would win.

All those asterisks are about the user-friendliness of the Buck Brannaman schedule, which this guy has followed so far: 2 3-hour lessons in one day!

Crikey, but I’d be fried by the end. And how about the horse? (He says they can roll with it.) And the dude spent a ton of time with his colt. Great for the horse, great for the dedicated horseman watching but not for someone who didn’t know a lot and

Also, I’m not sure the most efficient way to learn this stuff is with 10-30 people in the ring. That might work if you are learning the mechanics of various exercises (and the clinician gives easy-to-follow, no-judgment-required directions). But my impression is that a huge, huge part of training a horse is knowing what to apply and when. IME with other disciplines, you need some closer attention from a trainer to learn this feel.

So. If you were planning a weekend clinic of the Brannaman variety, how would you schedule it?

** The colt took forever but you could learn a lot of you paid attention and had some experience to build on.

** Though these clinics are traditionally large and infrequent, it seems to me that doing this more like the 1980s dressagers did would work: Clinician comes once every couple months and lessons are private or with fewer people so that the person gets in situ instruction regarding his particular horse.

What do you guys think?

[VaqueroToro]

If the guy in question is good at deciphering in situ, private or small group lessons is probably a good way to go to get him introduced at your barn. You can be the judge of how much interest you’d think he’d get. If he only got a couple of bites, then he’d know his schedule exactly instead of potentially wasting several days with nobody showing up.

I’d also offer the ability for anyone to audit the sessions (either for free or a nominal fee) – I’ve picked up bits and pieces by watching private sessions, enjoyed what I learned/saw, which then encouraged me to cough up the dough and book a session the next time the person stopped by. Some don’t want to cough up the dough until they’ve seen the quality of the goods (my dough is limited so this is me).

[Fillabeana]

In short, the only people I’ve seen be successful with 20 or more riders at the same time are Ray Hunt and Buck Brannaman.

I’d keep it to 6 or 8, an hour individually and a one or two hour group ride at the end of the day.

[mvp]

Great ideas.

IME, a key ingredient to learning to train (or just influence) a horse is a 3-way conversation between horse, rider and clinician who can really read the horse. That’s the thing I’d like to be able to offer riders at a clinic, even though that’s not how I have seen these big horsemanship things go.

On auditors. My policy is to never take a clinic unless I have audited one with the trainer first. So darn tootin’ I want to make auditing possible. Too bad our ring is long-n-narrow rather than wide.

I’d love to here more ideas or things from your wish list.

My BO wishes the clinician would include a basic inspection of equipment and saddle fit, first. I went to a clinic with a Great (if notorious) WP trainer who did a show-and-tell with the heavy, soft splt reins that he likes. I appreciated that. His point was that the reins made a big difference in the way the signal from his hands got to the bit and that “not everyone has felt great quality reins, so you guys need to see and feel these.”

[Huntin_Pony]

I organize a clinic something like this (3rd year upcoming - watch Events forum) and have found that private and semi-private sessions of 1 to 1-1/2 hours are well-received. I have solicited input from participants and auditors and that’s the consensus.

It’s also desirable to have the clinician do some riding/demos and to present his (or her) fundamental philosophy/technique. I figure late morning or right after lunch is probably the best time to get the maximum number of folks to watch.

Auditors appreciate a sound system that permits them to hear the clinician really well. This can be done inexpensively these days, but run a test ahead of time so you know it will work.

Good luck - if the clinician is good, your attendance and participation will build over time!

[VaqueroToro]

[QUOTE=mvp;7152401]
IME, a key ingredient to learning to train (or just influence) a horse is a 3-way conversation between horse, rider and clinician who can really read the horse. [/QUOTE]

The trainer being able to really read the human is a good thing too – knowing how the human influences the horse both in the saddle and on the ground and being able to pick out the things the human needs to do to show a positive (or negative as contrast) in the horse can lead to some awesome epiphanies for the rider/handler.

How do your guy’s people skills stack up?

[mvp]

[QUOTE=VaqueroToro;7152464]
The trainer being able to really read the human is a good thing too – knowing how the human influences the horse both in the saddle and on the ground and being able to pick out the things the human needs to do to show a positive (or negative as contrast) in the horse can lead to some awesome epiphanies for the rider/handler.

How do your guy’s people skills stack up?[/QUOTE]

Good question!

He says he’s struggling with the teaching thing. I’m a good teacher and I tend to think that everyone is like me (despite lots of proof to the contrary). So until I see someone suck-- usually blaming the student-- I think they’re just being modest.

But he really might suck. I will take a couple lessons to help answer this question. If I can understand what he wants and how to put my body where he says, I’ll assume he can get others to do that, too.

He doesn’t have the two things that I think promise a bad teacher: An over-inflated sense of self and a contempt for worse or less-dedicated riders. The other bit-- is he articulate and a good judge of riders’ character? I’ll have to find out… and ask myself how much that matters.

[Shermy]

If I am doing a clinic, I want to be in the saddle. I like full day clinics the best. Even while waiting your turn, you are still learning from other people’s questions. Being on your horse, gives you the option of practicing what they are working on too. I have a very comfortable saddle, so I am happier being on my horse, than sitting outside the fence, straining to hear what is being said or shown.

I learn a lot more, than if it was shorter privates or smaller half day sessions.

[Chaila]

I did one of these clinics recently. The first day was an assessment where we all had private lessons with the guy. (Greg Eliel). The 2nd day was split in 3. The first part was mostly ground work with about 10 horses. Then there were 2 groups of about 10 riders that rode for about 2 hours. You do a lot of work at the walk and trot so it’s not too exhausting, but after the 2nd day of the long ring rides with lots of horses in the ring, my young horse had had enough so I bowed out towards the end. I didn’t stay the last 2 days, so I’m not sure how that worked.

I wish the ridden sections had been smaller with less horses.

[Jeannette_formerly_ponygyrl]

How about an evening session Fri night to introduce folks to his concepts (and to help him focus on defining his concepts in a broad way) ?
Then I would err on the side of smaller groups rather than larger esp for a new teacher. Possibly also starting with a mandatory attendance demo at the beginning of the day, to show how things should (! ) go, or what the goal and process is.

[mvp]

All of your ideas are so helpful!

It helps me remember that people learn in all sorts of ways-- not just the way I do.

It would be great to have him have a horse on hand for some “show and tell.” I get a lot out of watching someone move their body (and the horse move his) while explaining where he’s going, why and when he quits. The visual is an important piece of that.

[aktill]

My preference (with people I work with often):

1. 1.5 hour semi-private sessions, 3 riders per, riding twice a day (3 hrs of riding/day). Lots of private instruction with time to practice to see if it’s sinking in.
2. 1 hour private/day
   WAY DISTANT 3) massive group clinics

[Pocket_Pony]

From a non-riding perspective, the organization is important and can be very helpful or not. For example, have food available! This weekend at a clinic there was coffee (thank goodness) available in the mornings, and the organizers took lunch orders and went and fetched sandwiches for lunch (that we had to pay for, of course). There was always water around that we could buy, and little snacky-type things also.

I like medium-sized groups (8 to 12) and I personally don’t like to ride twice in a day. I like watching other groups and learn a lot that way, too.

[muleygirl]

I personally dislike all day clinics, I don’t think they are really the best thing for green horses. I wouldn’t mind a half day, or regular lessons. I get much more out of them, and don’t have so much dead time. I think the popularity of mass clinics is just a way for clinicians to make more money in the time allotted. You can get a lot of information watching other lessons, I just don’t want to spend all the time sitting around on the horse.

[SaddleUp158]

I went to a cowboy dressage clinic this spring, my one and only experience at a clinic of any type. The first day was way too long. They had all of us in one big group lesson. We sat on our horse more than we rode b/c of waiting for our turn to try what the clinician was teaching. My mare got irritated, all of our bums were sore, etc. My mare is not one that gets irritated, more like a gelding than a typical mare. Luckily, the second day, they broke us up into two groups. One group rode in the morning and the other rode in the afternoon. The group who was not riding audited the lesson. They said they didn’t divide the groups up into ability, but I am pretty sure they did to a degree. It was very helpful though, that they had invited a couple of riders that had participated in the past and were well versed in the clinician’s style of riding/teaching to give demos for what he was asking for when riders might have an issue understanding the verbal instructions.

The clinic was also open to auditors who were not bringing a horse.

They had a snack bar available at the lunch hour after the first day of the clinic. They took a poll of the riders if they would prefer to leave the premises for lunch or to eat on site. Since we were only allotted an hour for lunch we all agreed to eat onsite. Restroom facilities…there was not an actually restroom at this facility, but they had two porta potties brought in for the occasion.

[mvp]

So glad this thread is still alive.

I’m going to a Cowboy Dressage clinic tomorrow. No opinions yet about the discipline or the clinician. The schedule looks promising with a demo and basic discussion of CD first, plus a Q&A at lunch and some private lessons afterwards. I’ll let you know how I think it goes from an auditor’s perspective.