Is it possible to teach a pony to long line in a halter?
Yes.
Next question?
When long lining I cannot stop my boy from turning around. I’ve tried someone in front of him, leading but it doesn’t work. He’s just more interested in me. Any tips?
What are you calling long lining? To me long lining is like driving them. You are behind following them with 2 reins, so he can’t turn around to see you.
I think you are asking about lunging. Or longing depending on where you are from. So you can long line to stop them turning in for lunging.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8760260]
What are you calling long lining? To me long lining is like driving them. You are behind following them with 2 reins, so he can’t turn around to see you.
I think you are asking about lunging. Or longing depending on where you are from. So you can long line to stop them turning in for lunging.[/QUOTE]
That is what I’m calling long lining. He does a 180 and gets tangled in it.
I’m not an expert but I do long line occasionally. Outside rein (outside of the way he’s turning) and insisting on forward should work. You may need an aid like a lunge whip.
Animal needs to be wearing some kind of surcingle, harness saddle, so that outside line of the two lines, is carried along his barrel. You want the outside line to run straight back from bit area, thru a ring on surcingle or shaft loop of harness saddle (which holds the line up and in place) on around his rump to your hands. We actually are NOT walking along behind when doing this, but inside his circle, often walking alongside at the length of the lines. You can’t see what his body is doing from behind, you usually can’t walk fast enough behind to not be hanging on his face, training in bad things like haning on your hands. Best position for the trainer is out to the side of horse or pony.
With animal BETWEEN the two lines, you can prevent his turning with a hold on the outside line. This means lines are held down on his sides, NOT up on rings along his spine. He can easily twirl and tangle, when he is UNDER the lines because you have no body control.
Not sure you will be AS successful training long lining, with using only a halter which will slip and slide around on his head with lines pulling it. Long lining with two lines, is designed to be done with a bit and bridle, so animal has crisp communication with lines directly to the bit, which stays in place when well fitted.
I am still not sure what you are calling long lining, use of one line or two, since you didn’t specify and SuzieQNutter mentions both in the quote you used to agree with.
Can you think of anyway I could make a makeshift harness saddle? And sorry I didn’t specify very well but I meant two lines.
He hasn’t been lunged. Is that a problem?
You can get a surcingle fairly inexpensively. I think Dover had one for around $30. I’ve always used a crupper when I long lined.
Saddle horse people often start colts in long lines and use them to teach a colt to lunge. The outside line coming behind the colt’s back end encourages him to move forward. Inside line keeps them on the circle. Looked like an easier way to teach them to lunge than with one line and a whip to me.
I think I’ve heard of futurity colts being worked in just a halter, but everyone else uses a bit.
[QUOTE=welsh world165;8760268]
That is what I’m calling long lining. He does a 180 and gets tangled in it.[/QUOTE]
I’d start with “double lunging”-- lunge line to you at the center of the circle, and a second line that goes from the outside ring of the bit, through a turret or grab strap on a saddle and back to you at the center of the circle.
Start out lunging as usual, no tension on the outside rein.
Once he’s got that, pick up that tension. At some point, you want to teach him to turn out from you a bit (make the circle bigger) by pulling on the outside rein and following the bit.
Things that make this work:
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Start slow, at the walk. Speed makes everything harder.
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Just hang on to that outside rein until he turns his head and then let go. Let him earn a release and he’ll figure out to follow the bit. This (or ground driving with you behind them) isn’t obvious to them. It’s often the first time the horse has to follow the bit away from your body when, in all of his previous history, he was being pulled toward his handler’s body. It doesn’t matter whether the horse has been taught to lunge or just lead. He has the same problem: No one has ever pulled him away from the handler’s body, so he’ll never guess that that’s the right answer.
2a. After he gives his head for that step, and on a little longer next time so that he steps over (to the outside of the circle). Just get the one step and let go. He’ll figure it out.
- With this and long lining or ground driving, the key is to stay behind them, or no further forward than their flank. Go slow. Back up as needed to stay in position. When the horse stops momentarily, encourage him to go forward-- gently-- to walk out of the situation. Horses get claustrophobic in long lines at first. Turning to face you/look at your body position for guidance is all they know to do.
If the horse is getting into that 180 tangle, you have driven him too fast without enough education; you have been too slow to step back and stay in the right position as he started to try and turn to face you; or you are dealing with a horse who has been taught something like the natural horsemanship “join up” and is quick to turn and face you.
This takes practice on the handler’s part. Everyone starts out letting horses get into that 180 tangle.
The other key thing is to learn to watch where the lines are behind you. The horse traveling in a circle will cause them to twist. It’s unsafe for you to have your feet between the horse and the twist, but it’s a hazard of this. Part of the skill is learning to keep track of your lines and your feet. Again, go slow and practice.
Last, you need to learn to choke up on the lines when you want to turn and to let go, allowing the line to slide through your hand when you mean to release. turning a horse from the ground (unless you are directly behind him) usually means you need to shorten a line by about 2 feet. You’ll need to get good at putting both lines in one hand and reaching up to shorten the other. Similarly, when you want to let go with one hand, the horse will need to quickly take a lot of rope. Your arm isn’t long enough; you have to let some line slide out through your hand.
I wouldn’t lunge in a halter as that will slide around. Remember that with a bit, however, and you anchored on the ground, you can inadvertently pull pretty dang hard. Be ready to give with your hand all the time.
Now that I write all this, I realize that this really isn’t easily taught except in person. But get the right equipment, go slow and see what you can do with these basic instructions. Hope this helps!
[QUOTE=welsh world165;8760918]
Can you think of anyway I could make a makeshift harness saddle? And sorry I didn’t specify very well but I meant two lines.[/QUOTE]
Good advice from goodhors & mvp.
I am “making do” with a Bitting Rig that has terrets like the saddle/back pad on harness & a crupper. Also has rings lower down on the sides that I run my lines through to ground-drive.
I will longe in a halter, but for long-lining or ground-driving you really do need to bridle.
Pony needs to learn to longe before you try long-lining.
Start on a very small circle - almost a triangle with you as the point, at walk.
Position yourself aligned slightly behind the point of his shoulder - ahead of this you are a block to forward motion, behind you have less control of speed.
When pony reliably responds to Whoa, Walk, Trot verbal commands you can enlarge your circle.
If he turns to face you put him right back to work.
Ask me how I learned this :rolleyes:
Excellent descriptions and advice about longing/long lining/ double longing, but FWIW, my awesome driving pony HATES being long lined and pretty much refuses to do it. He will ground drive (me walking behind him) and he will longe perfectly well with and without side reins. Long lining? You can tell by his expression that he thinks it’s a colossal waste of his time and energy and pulls every trick in the book to not do it, mostly stopping and turning in and standing there. if he didn’t do the other 2 things well and willingly I’d think it was lack of training but it’s not. I am decent at long lining and I can get it to work, but he just doesn’t like it and it’s way too much effort on my part. It’s sort of funny because he’s so amenable most of the time.
[QUOTE=Hilary;8762846]
Excellent descriptions and advice about longing/long lining/ double longing, but FWIW, my awesome driving pony HATES being long lined and pretty much refuses to do it. He will ground drive (me walking behind him) and he will longe perfectly well with and without side reins. Long lining? You can tell by his expression that he thinks it’s a colossal waste of his time and energy and pulls every trick in the book to not do it, mostly stopping and turning in and standing there. if he didn’t do the other 2 things well and willingly I’d think it was lack of training but it’s not. I am decent at long lining and I can get it to work, but he just doesn’t like it and it’s way too much effort on my part. It’s sort of funny because he’s so amenable most of the time.[/QUOTE]
Do you carry an appropriate length whip when long lining your pony? Can you actually reach him out there on the lines with a touch of whiplash to encourage his forward? If you do not carry the whip during the session, be able to use it when needed, the equine is going to do as he pleases and ignore directions to work.
Following directions, being obedient to voice commands is not optional here. This is where horse gets reminder of who is in charge by a touch of the whip to correct his bad response. Touch is all I need, no whip cracking, or hard lashing is needed. Touch like a finger poke, is enough correction. Voice commands are SERIOUS business here. Obedience EVERY time can mean preventing an accident, someone getting hurt.
I DON’T CARE if my horse doesn’t like long lining, he WILL do as I request him to. He will do things as I ask him to. When I say walk, trot, canter, halt, come around, to reverse dirction, it happens! Horse gets NO VOTE, NO CHOICE, in what we work on today. Whip in hand is your Aid, like a riders leg in asking for forward or bending.
^^^ So much wisdom there. I didn’t speak about using a whip (it requires even more practice with handling the lines and the whip and using them all accurately), but it is a necessary piece of equipment for balky horses. A horse who wants to stop or go backward in the long lines is tougher than the one who wants to run. So a whip really can be an early aid for that kind of horse.
You have to get them ready to try and think and be obedient on the lines. That’s a necessity of this kind of tangle-prone training; it’s also a huge benefit. So don’t care too much about the horse’s opinion. To do so missed the point a bit.
Last bit of lecture, this bit about equipment and preparation. By all means, rig up what you can using the equipment you have, so long as it all works. Long lining a pony in a halter who doesn’t yet know how to lunge sounds like skipping a whole lot of steps. And that’s setting a horse up to fail.
Long lining and double lunging are specialized skills— training and some physical skill— for the handler. Don’t underestimate how easy they are, or how little time it takes to get proficient. And know that while we don’t see masters of this art a lot in the US, there are some trainers and clinicians who can get extraordinary things done with a horse this way. Truly, long lining deserves as much attention and respect as riding does.
Thank you for this thread and all the excellent info. I’m just about to start Long Lining my horse.
Does anyone have a favorite set of long lines to recommend? Or ideas on what to look for in a good set? The horse is 16H and I would love lines that tangle as little as possible.
I started ground driving my filly at two in a lunging caveson. She is very soft in the face, so just the little bit of pressure and voice commands helped her keep control. I didn’t want to bit her as she had wolf teeth, wonky caps, and so forth.
But I refer to ground driving as the whole walking behind (well really…off to the side) over obstacles, out on the trail, and whatever.
Long lining is what I refer to as in the long lines, in the center of the circle with the horse moving around me.
Some great advice here on this thread. I also agree that obedience isn’t an option here. The nice thing is that with the long lines in place in a surcingle or harness or whatever, it is relatively simple to keep a horse from coming in just by keeping a bit of pressure on that outside line. Or if the horse is spinning to the outside to turn around, then you can hold the horse with the inside line.
It may be easier if you find a well broke horse to try this a couple times to get used to holding the lines and the whip, so you can learn to feel the pony’s mouth and understand where you have to basically keep a nice light contact on the lines in order to keep the circle and keep guiding the pony.
[QUOTE=csaper58;8765514]
Thank you for this thread and all the excellent info. I’m just about to start Long Lining my horse.
Does anyone have a favorite set of long lines to recommend? Or ideas on what to look for in a good set? The horse is 16H and I would love lines that tangle as little as possible.[/QUOTE]
I like these from Dover very much: http://www.doversaddlery.com/dovers-long-lines/p/X1-3046/
They have the features you want: They are light (that’s important for being as gentle as possible with the horse’s mouth). They have a rounded, nylon part up by the bit that slides easily. The cotton webbing is comfortable to hold and also light. They don’t stretch.
I don’t love the buckle at the end (though I have never long lined with it closed; I’m paranoid about getting my feet tangled). An expert might want them to be longer so that the horse can travel on a bigger circle, which is easier on his body. But for most of us, shorter is better.
I have used everything to long line, from lunge lines to thick cotton rope (and thin cotton rope) and thin-diameter mountain climbing rope. These are the best, primarily because they are light and slide easily by by the bit.
[QUOTE=csaper58;8765514]
Thank you for this thread and all the excellent info. I’m just about to start Long Lining my horse.
Does anyone have a favorite set of long lines to recommend? Or ideas on what to look for in a good set? The horse is 16H and I would love lines that tangle as little as possible.[/QUOTE]
My favorite long lines are the Fennells Leather Combo Lines, but I also use the sstack.com’s MCR lines for bigger horses usually 17 hands and up. The only ones I’ve had an issue with tangling are the cotton ones and I upgraded to leather to solve that issue.
My perfect lines would be the MCR for the first 10 ft and then 20 ft leather lines attached.
I have those, or very similar, and think they kind of suck. The square end of the snap doesn’t always fit through surcingle rings. 30’ lines always seemed short to me, even though that is the standard length.
