Long tails and driving

[enjoytheride]

I managed to combine Octoberfest AND a horse show tonight, both going on at a large showgrounds. The horse show was a saddlebred show (which I find bizzare and amusing). These shows also have Friesians showing in carriage and under saddle classes.

In one of the classes a friesian showed in a carriage (fine harness something with a trot and a road trot). It had this super long tail that dragged on the ground and well under the front wheels of the carriage. I understand that saddlebred shows run under their own set of freaky (to me) rules but I thought that this could be dangerous. Can’t the tail get caught in the wheels or would it depend on the type of carriage?

[Thomas_1]

It must have been a heck of a long tail to get under the wheels of the carriage. Either that of else the horse was put to incorrectly and the vehicle was way too close.

Wheels should be well out of the way where any part of the horse can reach it.

[pricestory]

Certainly seems dangerous to me. I imagine it doesn’t get out of the tail bag except to show. Seems those horses never see the outside of a ring.

[enjoytheride]

Thomas, this was the class except it was a friesian. Same cart and the tail went under the front wheels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hjai-VMZ-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XutG1KPzG1I&feature=related

[Thomas_1]

:eek:

Blimey!!!

I can see how their made to have such awful gait but how comes their tails are all stuck up???

What the heck are they doing to them??? I sincerely hope the shameful practice of cutting the muscle or “tail setting” isn’t still legal over there!!!

[CA_ASB]

Thomas - don’t quite understand the “made” comment regarding the gait as many babies will trot like that in the field.

As to the ASB tails, yes, many still nick and set the tails. The videos shown were actually from South Africa and from the US, and it is legal in both places (there are some states in the US where the practice of nicking the tail is illegal, but it is not illegal to show with a set tail - you can look at the USEF rules regarding that).

As to the OPs question regarding the length of tail/getting caught in the wheels, many of the horses shown in the videos did not have long enough tails to get caught (especially the first video). Difference between the ASB and Friesian world is that the ASBs can have a switch added to the tail to add length/fullness where the Friesians can’t.

However, if the tail is long enough to possibly get caught in the wheels, two items are employed. One, a shoestring is run across the shafts about 18 inches away from the hocks and the tail is placed over that (to keep the horse from stepping on it and to keep it from swinging so much side to side) and a small braid is placed at the very end of the tail with a shoe string braided into it. This is then tied unobtrusively under the carriage or cart frame (usually to a small loop that has been placed there). The tie is designed to breakaway in case of any sort of accident, but it does keep the tail up and off the ground and it keeps it centered between the wheels.

[twofatponies]

[QUOTE=CA ASB;3500709]

However, if the tail is long enough to possibly get caught in the wheels, two items are employed. One, a shoestring is run across the shafts about 18 inches away from the hocks and the tail is placed over that (to keep the horse from stepping on it and to keep it from swinging so much side to side) and a small braid is placed at the very end of the tail with a shoe string braided into it. This is then tied unobtrusively under the carriage or cart frame (usually to a small loop that has been placed there). The tie is designed to breakaway in case of any sort of accident, but it does keep the tail up and off the ground and it keeps it centered between the wheels.[/QUOTE]

Very clever! I’d wondered about that!

[cinder88]

Wow.
The one man’s coat tails looked like THEY might get caught in the wheels!

I was trying to see hwo they employed a hold back, as there was no breeching…was anyone able to catch it?

Cinder

[CA_ASB]

There is no hold back. These are show carts only (technically known as a fine harness buggy for the horses and a similar vehicle called a viceroy for the ponies). Fine Harness horses are not asked to back, either. Saddlebreds that show in pleasure driving classes are asked to back and don’t have harnesses with breeching, either, but those carts are two wheeled and are much easier to back than a 4 wheeled vehicle. Hackney harness ponies show in the same manner. To clarify some of what you’ll see in the videos, the cob tailed hackney ponies are taller and the “long tails” shown with set tails are the shorter ponies. Long tailed ponies shown to a pleasure cart can be any pony height, but classes are sometimes divided by height (as are the road pony classes).

Edited to add - Thomas, the tails are actually held in place by a high tail crupper that is part of the harness.

At 1:13-14 in this video, you can see the tail tied under the cart. Also note that none of the driving classes shown have any breeching on the harness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axrImFOin7U

Also, in this one (Hackney’s only), the pony in 26-32 has it’s tail tied to the viceroy and the one that shows at about 40 also does - but the string is very long, providing the illusion of the tail dragging the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlduIEGGRBU

[enjoytheride]

CA ASB, this was definetly a friesian showing at the saddlebred show and it was pulling the same cart as in the videos, and its tail was dragging the ground under the wheels. It was the amateur fine harness championship and I believe the friesian got there by winning the friesian pleasure class.

Thomas, here is another common class at a saddlebred show, this is hackney pony roadster to bike class. When they get going fast enough the drivers sit way to the inside and the carts slide around the corners sometimes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kat_bMB_wZQ

[CA_ASB]

Hi enjoytheride - I wasn’t in any way arguing with you, just explaining the differences. Friesians have been known to pull the Fine Harness buggies <g>.

BTW, by doing a little sleuthing, you were at the All American Horse Classic most likely. If that’s the case, the class with the Friesian pulling the Fine Harness buggy was class #138, the Carriage Class, open to all breeds, won by Tjebbe and driven by a long time hackney pony exhibitor, Karen Frickey. That would have had a trot and a road trot (most likely). The Amateur Fine Harness class was won by CH Harlem’s Santa Fe (class #142). The Carriage Class had no qualifier, but it was on Saturday night. Since it was a rated show, the Friesians can’t show in a class limited to ASBs (which the Fine Harness Amateur would be …). The gaits in that class are required to be an animated walk and Park Trot.

And, if they didn’t have that tail tied up and it was long enough to be back under the front axle … eek! BTW, you often can’t tell that the tails are tied up as they drape to the ground (see the videos).

And, road ponies are a total adrenaline rush to drive.:lol:

Edited to add:
Ahh, I think I found it … is this the horse?

http://www.rickosteen.com/AllAmerican08/138/slides/482-06548.html
http://www.rickosteen.com/AllAmerican08/138/slides/482-06549.html
http://www.rickosteen.com/AllAmerican08/138/slides/482-06556.html

If so, that’s not a FH buggy and no, that tail sure ain’t tied!

Here’s the winner of the Amateur FH class - a black Saddlebred:
http://www.rickosteen.com/AllAmerican08/142/slides/482-06716.html

[enjoytheride]

Ah, perhaps I did get the carriages mixed up. I’m not terribly sure Octoberfest and a saddlebred show are meant to be combined!

Yes, that was the horse and the class he was in. I’ve been looking for the photographers website half the day to see if I was right!

Thanks for answering my question about tails, I wasn’t sure if usually they are kept short or tied or if this owner was going against the grain to show his long tail.

[CA_ASB]

For most of the USEF divisions Friesians don’t get to cut tails, bridle paths, feathers, etc. The saddle seat Friesians will show with very long tails. Since they are so heavy, and since that class didn’t have any working aspects to it, I imagine that’s why it was down and full. Remember, with the explanation I gave, only the last 4-5 inches or so are braided (so it’s very thin) and there will be a “swag” to the tail to allow for movement so it looks as if the tail is dragging - but his is definitely not braided

I’ll see if I can find a good still shot of one attached like that.

Well, here’s an example of a very badly inserted switch (fake tail):
http://www.rickosteen.com/AllAmerican08/17/slides/482-01164.html

Here you can see the shoestring between the shafts trick:
http://www.rickosteen.com/CharityFair08/55/slides/475-01538.html

Ah - a tied tail:
http://www.rickosteen.com/CharityFair08/67/slides/475-01894.html
http://www.rickosteen.com/CharityFair08/67/slides/475-01898.html

[enjoytheride]

oh, that looks much safer!

[Thomas_1]

Shoestring between the shafts is what we call fixed or false britching.

We wouldn’t be allowed false tails - against rules - as is dying or colour changing in any way at all.

I could thought from the initial video that some probably had their tails tied but it looked like some didn’t and hence I asked about cutting the muscle. Again that’s illegal over here: and I mean as in “against the law” not against showing rules. You’d be subject to a cruelty prosecution for that here.

[CA_ASB]

Thomas - not sure how tying the tail at the bottom of the tail relates to cutting the muscle at the top, but okay, if you drew that conclusion from the video.

[willowoodstables]

Trust me, you only try it once with a long tail and not tie it under the cart or use the shoestring across the shafts. When I was a newbie (older than dirt ago), had a wonderously long tail on a roadster and the show was outside on a windy day. Anybody want to draw the conclusion of what happened??? yep wind blew tail into wheel hubs, wheel went around twice wrapping the tail tighter and voila, nice shiny hind shoes to look at LOL.

I use the showstring, just because Hubby is a newbie and forgets when the tail is tied to the cart and tries to unhook…pony usually doesnot like his tail pulled.

I love the long long tails …I use better hair products on their tails than my own hair!!! I try to keep the “feathers” (top of tail hair) full too, so when the pony lifts or flags his tail it looks full at the top…I wish my own hair was that long and silky!

Kim

[willowoodstables]

I just LOFF this horse…wait till you see him loose in his paddack with this tail…WOW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgxQB-Jqbrw&feature=related