Long-term plan for a hot and challenging mare

[SLW]

A had a mare who had a nasty spook in her that I could ride through 9 out of 10 times. The 10th time would get me off. I spend time desensitizing her on the ground and while mounted. She was turned out 24/7 with a ration balancer for “grain”. Her primary job was fox hunting but this spook also happened in the arena. I spent years trying to find the trigger to her spook which caused me to start riding defensively and mentally always looking ahead for the trigger. I was even finding excuses not to ride. Thankfully one day a daughter said to me “Mom, you are the most nonsense horse person I know and you have made excuse after excuse for XXX. I wish you would move on from her before you get hurt.” Thank God for family members who speak up.

The mare who replaced the one above is a joy to ride and 100% safe. She brought back the fun in riding to me. A friend took the other mare to be a pasture mate for her horse so it all ended well.

If you enjoy the the challenge of sifting through the unknowns then keep the mare. If you want to get back to “I have XX numbers of riding time available and I want to use it for doing XX” then this isn’t the horse for you based on your written description and not having seen the way you handle the horse on the ground and astride. I applaud all that you have done to find answers and think you have done due diligence for this mare.

[Altag]

@tabula rashah

Turn her out 24/7 and put her into work. I don’t mean an hour in the ring. I mean take her out and WORK her. Take her for a 4, 5 or 6 hour ride with some chill buddies. Work on ground work. Let her learn self-soothing and self confidence (patience poles are great for this). I’ve used these methods on more than one horse who sounded exactly like you described and there is a night and day difference in the horses once they get enough confidence and exercise

I agree that some good, hard daily exercise might really help this mare, particularly if it’s not on the longe or in a ring.

OP, I’d love to know what you end up trying with this mare and what, if anything, works for her. Please update us on your progress with her. I’m hoping to hear a positive update from you in six months. :yes:

[Puffergrrl]

No one’s going to love this, but you can try Depo injection if you’re currently only riding at home. YES studies show it doesn’t actually prevent estrus in mares. YES there is no scientific evidence that it actually calms down any sex of horse at any dose. YES you now have to fill out a disclosure form with USEF if you plan on showing on it.

BUT many, many people swear by it and you, my friend, have a young horse you don’t want to get rid of but can’t handle. Worth a shot (so punny)!

Another thought. The Amish if you have any around. The do a fantastic job “breaking” horses. Basically, they’re quite patient and they just put them to work. But cutting up with a plow or a cart attached isn’t the easiest thing to do. And when you’re tired you tend to not act out either. Kind of like Caesar Milan and walking dogs.

[Hilary]

If I do the math correctly she will be 7 this year? That can be the magic age of realizing their own sneezing is OK. My overly reactive home bred did begin to settle down at 7, but the first year she didn’t unload me she was 9. And I got to December and didn’t ride until the new year, just so I could be sure I made at least ONE year not getting launched.

And I came off when she was 10 and 11. And 14.

I finally came to terms with the fact that she hated surprises so eventing was not for her - she likes being in the same ring with the same stuff by herself if possible - or another horse for company but not in her personal space. Now? She is the star school horse who teaches riders to canter. She even participates in drill team which checks off the boxes of routine and in the arena, and lack of surprises to the point that she can tolerate the other horses around her.

Things that helped: 24/7 turnout. ROUTINE. Quiessence. Regumate or depo - although she is no longer on those and she’s ok. Ear poms to muffle noises also were good. She was visually sensitive too but noises… ugh.

[Critter]

Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions. I was joking (sort of) with a family member that I needed to send her out to a real working ranch for a summer and let her just learn the meaning of hard work and no excuses! Might still be something to consider.

She’s really the same type of ride whether you are in the ring or galloping in an open field (not that I do that with her…but that’s what she gets at boot camp with the pro/racetrack rider). He takes her hacking with a reliable horse and rides in the open or on the track…her reactions seem to be the same. So not sure a change of job matters? But, you never know.

Eyes were looked at by my vet…no cataracts or major concerns. She did notice that one structural part of the eye is slightly smaller (drat, I can’t remember the exact details)…and had said that it could potentially make her more light sensitive…and maybe more prone to spooking. Could have it looked into more…she could also learn to adapt! LOL

I agree…she needs some serious wet saddle pads…which is my plan for this spring/summer. I want to really focus on working her very consistently and make sure it’s not just a work ethic issue. I am not worried about her being drug free to show (heck, if we can’t get around the ring at home, why waste the money)…so I am okay with trying the Depo or even a 30day tranq to see if it will take the edge off enough for me to work through her reactiveness.

She goes in a noise-reducing ear bonnet…that was a lifesaver! Never thought it would make a difference…but the bonnet or ear plugs are a HUGE help.

I’ve put up with her as when I think to my two very sensitive geldings who went to FEI level…it took both of them until about age 9 to really settle and be a solid ride. I actually laugh all the time with my current gelding…he is now 14. I NEVER would have predicted for him to be such a consistent, safe, easy ride based on his antics as a 3 and 4 year old. He had a break during his 7 and 8 year old years for an injury and rehab…and he was explosive (playful) as a youngster. Now, you can hop on in a blizzard or hurricane and he wouldn’t care. So, I am trying to stick it out with her in the hopes that she will “settle”…not that I expect her to ever be a mellow, lazy girl…just more rideable!

[BeeHoney]

I have one more idea for you that is my own personal go to solution for horses like what you describe–spooky, distracted, overly reactive. As young horses develop mentally, they go from being at the bottom of the pecking order sometimes to the top. Some horses are not happy at the top–the “responsibility” and lack of structure is stressful for them. They feel like they have to notice and worry about everything. Turning these horses out with another horse that is a strong and confident leader (whether it is a cranky old broodmare or a zero-patience old gelding) gives them structure, confidence, and boundaries. A more dominant older horse will discipline a herd member for being dramatic and over reactive. I have never really solved a problem horse’s problems with diet or ulcer treatment. Things like calming supplements and ear plugs are helpful, but mainly just quick fixes for predictably difficult days (wind, cold weather, new place, etc.). Hard work is helpful for sure, and sometimes a more confident/dominant (but obviously not cruel) rider can get a difficult horse more focused.

You don’t say what your mare’s turnout situation is, but since you mention that you brought her into the world, is there any chance that she is turned out in a group that includes her dam? That’s probably not the case, but if it is, separating the two would be a very important first step.

[syreino]

I have a similar horse - we’ve been together 7 years now. In 2015 I was done, it wasn’t fun riding her and her spooks and starts and everything in between. I invested, as a last ditch effort, in lessons from my old dressage instructor. It was that or she’d be a pasture potato the rest of her life - because I just couldn’t do it anymore.

Nancy put us to work on ground work - for weeks, no riding, just ground work. We basically started over, ground work with Nancy includes the saddle, lunging with side reins - think Dominique Barbier style. She exploded, she refused, she was really testing everything and then one day she decided it wasn’t worth the fight anymore. We started making some progress, slowly. I have had to relearn everything I thought I knew about horses as she is very sensitive and opinionated. BUT it’s been worth it. We are a team now, she looks to me for leadership and I provide it the way she wants. She trusts me, and I trust her - and I enjoy riding her. I would say it took two solid years for me to realize that i didn’t tense and dread riding her anymore. It’s great when you don’t even realize what is happening beneath you until you’re already a team:)

Prior to our reboot, I was planning on getting her spayed if anyone would do it, as i thought that would help - but it was a combination of wrong behaviors from both of us. She’s really quite talented, and she’ll never live up to her full potential with me, but that’s okay. We’re happy together - truly happy together.

Best of luck with your mare. I hope you end up in a year or two looking back and being grateful for her quirkiness and how it led you down this new path to partnership. I’m grateful for Ana and the path we are on together - she’s made me a better horse person without me knowing it.

[Critter]

So, her turnout was with an older broodmare since she was weaned. Shortly after she was weaned, I sold her dam (who moved to the new owner’s farm). I turned her out with my retired QH mare…who didn’t put up with nonsense, didn’t think anything in the world was worth getting worried about (except missing dinner), and didn’t pick on anyone. She was the best babysitter in the world! Slowly, as my old mare got even older, she became less of the boss. Sadly, I had to say goodbye to my old girl back in December (she was almost 29 and age took it’s toll).

Interestingly the young (challenging) mare was starting to get more aggressive with my old girl…to the point I was considering separating them. I was worried the young mare would have a melt down when we put her out alone after we said goodbye to my old mare. When we brought the old mare into the barn for the farrier, we had to bring the younger one in too, otherwise she would about run through the fence and hurt herself. I was ready for a melt down…but the young mare never made a peep the next day…no running, pacing, whinnying. It was really strange.

So right now she is out alone, with other horses near. I don’t have another good match to turn her out with…only 1 other mare. And they fight horribly if they share a fence line, so it would end badly if they went in together. Plus the other mare can be hot headed and a bit nutty (in a different way), so I don’t think that would be a good combo. She’s always been turned out…at the trainers she was out with some older geldings. Didn’t impact the rest of her behaviors at all.

[Palm_Beach]

@RedHorses

My younger gelding is not that bad, but was bad enough that some days I pretended I owned only one horse because I could not deal with him. It has been a long, slow process but we have found a few more pieces of the puzzle in the last three years and I can enjoy him the vast majority of the time now.

The first piece was work. He needed some work as close to every day as possible. Ground work qualified - this was mental work, not physical. Some days all I had was five minutes in the (very small) barn to walk, halt, back, move over, move bum (TOF). It made a difference. He still needs regular work, but doesn’t lose it if I miss a few days now.

Magnesium helped him immensely as well.

Warwick Schiller’s video about letting go of the rabbits has made a huge difference. I’ve seen another one of his videos about the same thing without the rabbits - cognitive behaviour therapy. It involves deliberately putting the horse in a situation where he gets a little bit nervous and then giving him the opportunity to calm himself down. He learns how to calm himself and then you put him him in a situation that makes him a bit more nervous and give him the opportunity to calm himself down. And repeat with progressively scarier situations.

It is not a one day fix, or a one week fix - though I did see improvements fairly quickly. He backslid if there were too many days between rabbit work. It took work and there were days I had to work on letting go of the rabbits instead of doing the dressage work I had planned. And I said, more than once “I don’t want to do rabbit work today.” But I did it anyway. I started on the ground and I was blown away when he volunteered to halt beside the open door, in the wind, with noisy activity out of sight, and COCKED A HIND FOOT AND DROPPED HIS HEAD!! Yes, his head popped up again almost immediately, but his foot was still cocked until I told him to walk on. We did rabbit work under saddle too.

There were days this winter that I got on and rode that I wouldn’t have even considered riding him last year.

It may not work for your mare. But if all she needs is to learn how to control herself it might help.

I just went back and reread this thread and realized how many people recommended Warwick. He has a series on an eventing mare who is very talented, and her rider/trainer is very talented as well, but ready to throw in the towel on this horse. The usual things - spooky, difficult on cross country, etc. But the videos show how these seemingly stupid and boring ground work exercises, and basic flatwork exercises will solve big ugly problems (rearing, refusing, etc) with minimal effort and risk to the rider. For under $100 and a few months commitment, I think most posters on this board could solve their problem horses. It’s not rocket science, and you don’t need to be an expert rider.

[rhymeswithfizz]

I have a have an anxious, neurotic little TB that I almost gave up on. Not quite to the degree of your girl, and he never got me off, but he was so spooky and reactive (especially when we were riding with mares that he got overly attached to) that it just wasn’t fun to ride him and I thought about moving him on. He wasn’t naughty or evil, he was just neurotic, always worried, and that made him unpredictable and inconsistent. I just couldn’t make any progress.

As a last ditch effort I decided to throw money at him for a few months, boarded him out and put him in full training with a local upper level eventing trainer who excels with TBs, and it was like a miracle. I seriously have no idea how she did it but it was like he suddenly grew up. Like he was 4 years old for 5 years, and then suddenly he was a grown up confident 9 year old. He thrived with her like he never had before. I think it was a combination of quit-your-sh!t-and-grow-up (trainer having much better skills than I in that no-tolerance department), getting more confident in what was being asked of him with a better skilled rider, and a change of scenery from quiet home barn to busy boarding barn, but it all finally clicked with him. He also has a feisty mini-donkey in the next pen that he adores and plays with all day.

We still have him there and keep him in half training, but now he is relaxed and easy enough that my rather timid teenage daughter events him, and I foxhunt with him as my first flight fieldmaster horse, where he is absolutely tremendous and has become a field favorite.

I don’t have much wisdom to offer, other than “try everything” and ask around for trainers that do well with similarly challenged horses. Or maybe a donkey

[Foxtrot_s]

^^^^^ “or maybe a donkey”.

I have no real advice, but I do know that some racehorse farms put their TB youngsters with an old, tried and true donkey - couple them together - and where the donkey goes, the TB goes, lies down, drinks, etc.

Also, some people are hot seated, others have a calming effect. - a conscience effort to stay quiet may help.

[Critter]

LOL…the donkey would probably cause her to have a heart attack!! Although everything I think will set her off is okay…and the stuff you think should be okay causes a melt down. So maybe she would love a pet donkey!

I tend to gravitate towards hot/reactive horses…and generally get along quite well with them. Usually my strength when I’ve brought up youngsters is getting them really consistent and steady…so that’s why she has been so frustrating. I can’t seem to get her to do the things that has been so easy for me with many other young horses.

Thank you to all those who have shared their story of perseverance and just sticking through the hard years. My deep down feeling is that if we can just get through this, she is worth it. The hard part is not letting the frustration get to be so overwhelming.

I booked a nutrition consult for her…maybe a change in calorie intake, a bit more turnout (when the weather breaks), and some consistent work (including ground work) will make a difference. If I go through that and we are still no better, at least I know I’ve done everything I could to work through it.

[Bif]

Have you tried eliminating soy from her diet? It is insidious if you are trying to avoid it.

[SuzieQNutter]

Lunging is not for tiring her out.

Correct lunging when done in side reins lets her learn how contact works correctly with no pulling. She learns rhythm and tempo. She learns to accept the bit without griding teeth etc.

You don’t get back on her until she is lunging like an old school pony. This is not done in one day because remember 10 minutes of lunging correctly is equal to 1 hour of riding.

My hot mare went from having her face parallel with the sky, over 1 foot in between hind and front hooves and bucked at tripping over hard cow manure, slipping on wet cow manure, a calf looked at her, the wind blew, etc.

Actually I was banned from riding her alone by my husband that she as so reactive. I started lunging her just for something to do and I did this daily.

I put the lunging cavesson on and lunged until she stopped bucking… about 3 weeks.

I put a roller on and lunged until she stopped bucking… about 3 weeks.

I put loose side reins on until she stopped bucking … yep still 3 weeks.

Then I tightened them to the appropriate, not pulled in length. Yep more bucking.

I had no thoughts of getting on her but one day she was going around like an old school pony. She hadn’t bucked in ages. Her head was vertical. She was tracking up.

I hopped on her, yes home alone and going against my husband’s wishes, and I had a trained dressage horse, she was western before I started.

She never bucked again, even the day she went down on her knees and just stepped up again in walk.

My life passed before my eyes when she stopped on the circle and I thought it was because of a bit of deeper sand there on the centre line. I was looking up and said with my body it is okay girl you can trot on.

The panic I felt when I reached the side of the arena and saw the side rein which I had clipped to the d ring after lunging her had detached and was now hanging from the girth and swinging under her stomach and was hitting her legs.

I don’t know how, because as I said my life was passing before my eyes. I asked for a halt. I bent down picked up the side rein. I clipped it to the d ring and I asked for a trot transition.

She no longer bucked.

The reactiveness had been that she had been ridden in a stock saddle with legs forward. I had put on a dressage saddle and she was jumping away from my legs. Not fun for the rider. This just seemed to resolve with the lunging. I did lunge with blue jeans filled with crumpled newspaper and boots in the stirrups to desensitise her.

[fanfayre]

you rode with sidereins attached?

[BlueDrifter]

@fanfayre

you rode with sidereins attached?

I read that as the siderein was detached from the bit and fastened to the saddle D-ring, where it apparently came unhooked and was dangling.

[fanfayre]

@BlueDrifter

I read that as the siderein was detached from the bit and fastened to the saddle D-ring, where it apparently came unhooked and was dangling.

Oh, whew!!!

[BravAddict]

@Altag

My only other suggestion is to try some clicker training for this mare. She sounds like an intelligent horse who stresses easily, so giving her a way to communicate a little differently and, in some ways, feel like she has more control in interacting with you, teaching with a clicker might be helpful. Try it for a few ground manners or simple tricks and see how she responds. Can’t hurt, might help.

Nothing else to offer other than to chime in on clicker training. From the outside it looks like it’s only good for training tricks and cute stuff, but it really does change how horses view humans. Instead of “How can I avoid getting in trouble?” it becomes “What can I do for you so that you’ll give me what I want?” It really does give them control in a way most horses haven’t ever had any. And although food and treats are the easiest way to introduce clicker training, and I wouldn’t recommend getting too caught up in trying to phase them out, clicker trained horses ultimately end up offering behaviors not because they expect a treat but because they can’t help it! It rewires their brain. I don’t know how else to explain it, but it’s very cool to see.

I have also recently heard that similar to the way that slapping on a smile makes us feel happier, when horses lower their heads they feel calmer. Just a thought!

[SuzieQNutter]

@fanfayre

you rode with sidereins attached?

No not attached to the horse. Only attached to the saddle. A thing taught to do at a lecture but had done it for over 25 years with this not happening before. I have no idea why it detatached but I remove them completely now.