You didn’t answer my question. How do you think that the seasonal rise in ACTH rise affects the blood testing? Time of day? Diet? Age? Breed?
WOW, that is beyind shitty of the rescue.
I’ve actually had 2 cushings horses (only one with thyroid disease) and we always tested the blood periodically to make sure the Prascend was doing its job. One horse didn’t respond well enough to 1 tablet and had to go up to 2. It’s not unlike diabetes… things like diet (including things somewhat out of your control like sugar in the grass) can constantly impact the horse. Cushings/thyoid disease is about management, and it’s hard to manage something without a baseline of sorts and without periodically checking to see how the drugs are doing.
I also saw MUCH better results with Prascend vs. compounded generic in liquid form. I know it’s a huge price difference though.
I can’t believe how awful the rescue is being. But please don’t jump on people who suggest bloodwork simply because they suggest it. Doing bloodwork is a normal part of trying to manage these conditions, and if you really want to know whether the horse needs the Thyro-L and the only way you’re going to get anything like a definative answer (and know the cushings is controlled) is by doing bloodwork and consulting your vet.
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Actually, I’ve been dealing with horses on the metabolic spectrum since 1997. While I certainly understand why you might want to have bloodwork done, you are essentially treating what is standing in front of you. By the time you test a horse with issues, of course they are going to light up the test. In a perfect world, testing horses before there is an issue would be ideal, to have a baseline. That doesn’t happen. This one caught me off guard, because we were managing him with diet. The damn second cutting pushed him over the edge. Lesson learned.
If the rescue was more helpful, it would be nice, but we’ll get through this. I am blessed that my small animal vet orders my drugs for me, and let’s me have them at her cost. There are good people in the world!
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I agree.
I had a pony on Thyro-L for years with no ill effects, but pergolide without blood work really does seem very odd - unless, of course, the horse has fairly obvious symptoms of Cushings’ and you’re waiting for test results. Are you seeing an over-long coat, lack of shedding, anything like that?
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Well, as soon as my horses start getting older I start periodically doing bloodwork, so I do have a baseline. But that’s not the only useful information you can get with bloodwork. If you test and get a certain result, and then treat with Prascend and test again, and the bloodwork is better-- that’s a sign the Prascend is working. Yes it’s unlikely to ever be totally normal again, but you can use bloodwork to calibrate the dosage and ensure it’s working.
I get that the rescue is being shitty but I don’t understand why you’re so hostile to the suggestion that doing bloodwork might help you manage this horse. It might. If you can’t afford it, aren’t willing to spend the money on it-- that’s fine. I get that. Especially with a horse you didn’t expect to have to spend this money on. But that doesn’t address whether the bloodwork could give you helpful information. It could. It’s up to you whether it makes sense under your circumstances to do it-- but it doesn’t make it an unhelpful suggestion.
You have a horse that had laminitis and the vet put him on Thyro-L. You asked for “thoughts and experiences” because you were questioning whether to keep him on it long term. I had one horse with thyroid disease who needed to be on it long term. There was no visible difference between him and the horse who only had cushings and didn’t need the Thyro-L. The only way we found out about the thyroid disease is through bloodwork. If you want the definative answer as to whether the horse has thyroid disease-- that’s the way to get it.
Should you contine the Thyro-L? I feel like this is an impossible question to answer without bloodwork.
Obviously something wasn’t working for the horse before because he developed laminitis. He is apparently better now. One of the things you did in between is use Thyro-L. The only way to know his thyroid levels, to know if he really benefits from the Thyro-L is through bloodwork. Everything else is trial and error/guesswork. Which doesn’t make you a bad person for wanting to try other things before bloodwork. But if the question is “Does my horse need to live on Thyro-L?” the answer really is “the only way you can know for sure is by doing bloodwork to check his thyroid levels” or just to take him off and see what happens, hopefully nothing bad. I don’t really understand the snippy attitude at people who are suggesting bloodwork. Whether it’s what you want to do or not, it’s a COMPLETELY LOGICAL thing to do for someone managing this type of horse wondering whether s/he needs to continue the current regimen or not.
My horse lived on Thyro-L for years before having to be put to sleep for unrelated reasons. I never saw any side effects from the Thyro-L. He also did not love the taste but I was able to get him to eat it mixed into feed without too much hassle. He was a real bugger sometimes about the Prascend but not too terrible about the Thyro-L.
I have not heard of putting a horse on it to slim the neck down. I don’t see how that would be effective on a horse with normal thyroid levels anyway.
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I appreciate the opinions. One of the most respected Vets at New Bolton Center said something about this some years ago. He stated that if it looks like it needs to be treated for Metabolic issues, it probably does.
This horse has a cresty neck. Not surprising. He was a stud until he was 11. He has always shed out fine. He does have adipose fats pads, but they are kind of characteristic of the breed. This one caught me off guard. That doesn’t usually happen.
I am not a firm believer in testing unless the parameters of the test are refined enough to be consistently useful. It does have its place. I just had a complete blood panel done on my 24 year old stallion. NOT because of his Cushings, but because of some irregularities I was seeing. Came back clean.
Ah well. The horse is doing 100% better, and we’re weaning him back off of Previcox and decreasing his Pergolide. Time will tell.
I did answer your original question and made a recommendation. Regarding the other questions you have, I’d advise you to ask an equine vet about this horse and what they might advise. As you’ve already mentioned, this one “caught you off guard”, so obviously something isn’t working. Good luck!!!
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The horse is in the care of an Equine Vet, and we’ve righted the ship. As mentioned before, we believe that the second cutting pushed him over.
No, you did not answer my specific questions about the testing. That’s fine.
Thank you for all of your kind thoughts!
I just asked on here about this same exact topic a month or two ago.
I was directed to the ecir group and it has helped immensely since my vet has been basically worthless in answering my questions.
Dr. Kellon has said that Thyro-L as a long term treatment for IR & metabolic disorders does not work. It does jump start metabolism and help in weight loss. But once the weight has come off, there is no long term benefit to it.
I have been in the ECIR group since it started. Dr. Kellon lives about 45 minutes from me. I have huge respect for her, and there is a great deal that can be learned on the group.
Well I guess we both have our answer then.
I respect Dr. Kellon too. My horse has lost about 40 pounds in 2 months of Thyro-L and diet modifications. He has about another 30 or so to go, and then I am going to wean him off of it.
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There’s a vet around here whose diagnosis du jour a few years ago was Cushings, and every older horse he treated went on Prascend without bloodwork. I know at least one horse who had no actual symptoms and whose bloodwork was normal off Prascend after the owner saw the light and switched vets. 
WOW!!! I guess I should have said, “I don’t know of any reputable vets that would prescribe Prascend/Pergolide without bloodwork.” The interesting thing about bloodwork, is that I have seen a lag in the correlation between lab results and clinical symptoms. Having said that, I think it would be negligent not to run the bloowork and recheck periodically. Sometimes you get very different results with a recheck.
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Agree!! This guy is older and was very widely used/respected for a long time but seems to have gone off the rails a bit, and I have heard quite a few horror stories. He treated one poor horse for laminitis for months (which probably involved Prascend as well, ha) and it turned out to have a broken coffin bone.
If you want to talk about the bloodwork, perhaps you can answer my question about the testing.
I am finding the opinions to be interesting. In this case we decided to go with Previcox, rather than bute longer term. I had started him with banamine, and switched to bute, when he first exhibited symptoms. then, we moved him to the Previcox.
Unless you truly understand what the tests are telling you, and how they are influenced, the default answer of “you’ve got to test” smacks of a lack of understanding of the issues. It simply is a knee jerk response, which translates to “the Vet will fix it”. How can you possibly, ultimately, be your animals advocate if you do not really understand what your asking?
Please bear in mind- I got my answer to the question I posed. I’ve seen Thyro-L used long term in ASB show horse barns since I was a kid. I was just wondering what effects people had seen, long term.
I have to assume I am reading this wrong.
What is wrong with “the Vet will fix it”?
They went to college and experience fixing it (whatever medical thing it might be).
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If that works for you, fine. It’s kind of like “the trainer will fix it”. I have worked very hard at learning everything that I can about horses, over the years. I want to know exactly what we do, and why.
There have been times, years back, that I felt that if I had asked better questions, I could have been a better advocate for my horses, and my dogs. There will never be a time when I simply take it on faith that anyone else is going to be their best advocate. I have the best Vet I have ever seen. I’ve known her for over 25 years. And, she knows damn well that I am going to ask all of the questions that I can, and make the final decisions. I owe it to my animals to have the best support system I can find- a Vet- and then to be there for them.
YMMV.
Expecting my vet to fix things, while using all the lovely modern tools we have available, to me is not me not working hard to learn all I can about everything horse. It is how I learn everything about horses.
Horse has problem - Call vet and vet comes out, we discuss the situation and all the things it might be (I might or might have all the same ideas as the vet). Testing might be done. When the test results come in there is further discussion with the vet about what those results mean and how we move forward. My vet does not just say ‘do this’ and I say ‘yes ma’am’. We discuss my options for what is best for the horse from what has been learned from all the exam and test results.
I am happy to have wonderful professionals in my world. Farrier, vet, etc. Kind of like the conversation we had at the hair salon (human) the other day - I can’t do their job (cut my hair) and they can’t do my job, and that is all OK.
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I get blood work 2x a year, always first appt in the AM and pony fasts until blood has been taken. No grain, only soaked hay for 24 hr prior. Date wise I try to stay within a two week range dependent on vets schedule. Controlling what variables I can, I feel I have a good base line after testing 2x a year for the past 6 years. I can notice any elevation in his numbers or trends.
Not perfect, but best I can do.
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And that’s why the people who do the tests are, y’know, vets.
I don’t know you at all, but, honestly, your replies here strike me as rather odd.
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