Any responses to the lungeing article? I was a horse show groom after high school and before college. It did not go well, and longeing was at the heart of it. Trainer declared one horse much too fresh for his rider, who was doing junior hunters and Maclay classes but apparently was not expected to be able to warm up her own horse. The suggestion was that I had not worked him hard enough on the longe that morning. Second horse later came out one morning for the daily longe, and did not look quite right to me–cross cantering, stiff, etc. So I brought him back to the barn and said I did not think I should do more with him on the longe if he looked a little off. I was a told I needed to go back and “lay him on his ass” so that his junior rider (Children’s Hunter Division) could manage him. He had a stop in him from time to time (probably because he was NQR) and it was not clear to me why anyone thought chasing him around on a double longe line would help that issue. This was at WEF and working for a BNT who himself has ridden on international teams and rode at a very high level when I worked for him. I quit the job after the “lay him on his ass” comment and told BNT, trying to be diplomatic, that he needed a groom who would make the same kinds of decisions that he would make, and I am not that person. I went home, started college, and resolved not to try to make a living persecuting horses at horse shows so that riders could win vanity ribbons. Root causes, IMO, included: (1) parents who were over invested in six figure horses, (2) kids who were not really expected to care for the horse, ride or train–just find the jumps, (3) multi week horse shows with no turn out, and (4) highly skilled trainer who absolutely knew better but needed the income from the horse show parents to sustain the endeavor. I enjoy hunters in theory or in principle, but the behind the scenes reality was very disappointing to someone who thought she aspired to that world.
Agree with you. I loath the LTD barns. I only lunge my horse to let her stretch her legs at shows because she is turned out at home and then goes into a stall for weeks at the show.
Thankfully I ride with a trainer who doesn’t believe in that (or drugs - even legal doses), and still wins at the top. It’s rare, sadly.
I see some grooms walk past my barn at the shows ALL day long lunging horses. Simple fact is - rich amateurs don’t want to pay to not win. Trainers don’t have the time or patience to actually reach people to ride and you end up with a vicious cycle of broken horses.
I think that you have hit the nail square on the head with this little story. Good for you for standing up for what you know is right, and acting in the best interest of the horse. This is exactly what is WRONG in the show horse industry these days. And it seems that about all a person can do about it is simply refuse to participate in it, and set an example with your own horsemanship. It’s no wonder that the equine industry is dying, when professionals are not professional any more, and riders are not learning how to be horsemen. And the groom is assigned the blame.
I agree.
I was lucky that when I groomed I was working for people with similar values. There were only ever a couple that we lunged at the shows. One hunter that was gelded late always came out in the morning wanting to strut his stuff. Five minutes on the lunge to call to his wannabe girlfriends and then he could focus and get down to work. Most of the time we just trotted.
And a jumper who loved to come out and do big stretchy trots, long and low on the days when he wasn’t showing. Never more than 15 minutes.
Every once in awhile we would have a baby or a new horse come to a show with their eyes bugging out. Lunging for a few minutes (not to exhaustion) before getting on always seemed like the safest option.
I don’t groom anymore, but have a couple of my own.
My 12yo A/O gelding lives out 24/7 at home. He’s well behaved, but has a playful buck in him. *Knock on wood, he hasn’t gotten me off in years, but I prefer to let him play for a couple minutes on the lunge the first day of a show. My concern is that my horse misbehaving in the warm up ring could cause a dangerous situation for other riders.
He isn’t one to bolt or be a jerk on the lunge. He can maintain a near perfect circle with a slow rhythmical canter, while throwing in the odd rodeo buck. Since he doesn’t get fired up about it the other horses lunging nearby usually don’t even notice.
I don’t know that I’ve ever actually taken a lunge whip with me when lunging at a show. I always figured if the horse didn’t have the energy to trot or canter on its own, or with voice commands, than it really didn’t need to be lunged.
It’s a symptom of a horribly broken system. The hunters creates a situation where you have a massive amount of money in a horse and you can lunge it, drug it, or lose the money. For every one out there that’s quiet enough to go into the ring with just a hack there’s three more that aren’t. You lose your resale value after it’s been wild in the ring too many times.
Just like you said, owners are over invested, the trainer needs to make a living, there’s no turn out, etc etc. It’s a whole systemic problem.
I would add that many of the grooms often aren’t paid a living salary and aren’t taught horsemanship. I remember watching a groom take a horse out to longe at the Charleston “AA” Classic.
He sent the horse out on the circle and began scrolling through his phone. The horse got loose immediately and careened back to the barn. It was an incredibly dangerous situation and fortunately, no one was hurt. And it was all because the groom really did not care about the quality of the lunge the expensive horse received.
I got stuck on the thought that an Amateur Adult is spending more money on horse treats than groceries.
Really?
Was that supposed to be a joke? Or legit?
I hope it wasn’t meant as a fat shaming dig.
Hmm, I didn’t interpret it that way, but maybe it just went over my head.
I’m a working AA who definitely spoils my horses, while SO and I eat grocery store brands, shop the sales, and use coupons.
Edited to add
My trainer’s daughter started making homemade treats this summer. I think I single handedly bought enough to pay for her new boots 
As someone who has decided my horse prefers $40 bags of “German Horse Cookies with the peppermints because he does the tongue slurping trance” over a $3 bag of carrots, I read it as a joke.
Can you please tell me what a double longe line is? I read that in the article and see you reference it as well. Not quite sure what that is - thanks!
Usually two longe lines hooked together so the horse can go on a bigger circle when there is sufficient room available.
Depends on the horse, IME, though I do think that what you describe is the ideal! When I was a groom, some were honest about winding down on the line and some were not - they had learned a long time ago that they didn’t really care to go around in circles and the the human in the middle couldn’t do much about it. Being lazy on the lunge line did not always correlate with being lazy under saddle!
When I was a groom, we were fortunate to have enough riding staff to do more riding in the morning than lunging. Yes, it was important that the horses went quietly in their classes, but fortunately all the trainers I worked for were proactive about teaching grooms safe lunging technique and we were supervised closely until we were deemed competent. No extended sprinting, no cross cantering, as big of a circle as possible, change directions often. Etc. it really was an art, especially with clients who would get just as irritated if a horse was too much of a kick ride that day as if they were a little fresh! But yes, of course there is a lot of bad lunging at the shows. I would blame trainers before grooms for the root problem - either not knowing or not caring what’s happening to their horses when they disappear to the lunging arenas.
Honestly, I can’t blame amateurs but so much for wanting to ride the same horse at the show as at home (as much as possible, everyone has a bad day now and then). Showing is freaking expensive and stressful, and not knowing what horse you’re going to have for a big course just adds to the anxiety. “Learn to ride better” is a nice ideal and we should all work on having a bigger toolbox but having poor rounds because your horse is fresh, when it could easily not be fresh with safe and responsible prep, is a big waste of show opportunity and money.
Oh - thanks!
@Redlei44 I agree with everything you wrote, especially this:
" It really was an art, especially with clients who would get just as irritated if a horse was too much of a kick ride that day as if they were a little fresh! But yes, of course there is a lot of bad lunging at the shows. I would blame trainers before grooms for the root problem - either not knowing or not caring what’s happening to their horses when they disappear to the lunging arenas.
Honestly, I can’t blame amateurs but so much for wanting to ride the same horse at the show as at home (as much as possible, everyone has a bad day now and then). Showing is freaking expensive and stressful, and not knowing what horse you’re going to have for a big course just adds to the anxiety. “Learn to ride better” is a nice ideal and we should all work on having a bigger toolbox but having poor rounds because your horse is fresh, when it could easily not be fresh with safe and responsible prep, is a big waste of show opportunity and money."
(I can’t figure out this new quoting thing on coth on my phone)
IMO, Lunging is a tool. Can lunging be abused? Sure. Does it have it’s place and time? Of course it does. At my barn/ most of the barns I’ve worked at we have extremely specific instructions for lunging (or longing as the Europeans spell it). As in: 5 minutes WT, 2 minutes canter each direction, do not go over 17.5 minutes total and take him for a hand walk after. Not joking, the instructions should be that specific.
It’s a place to assess a horse’s mental and physical fitness, to check in with him/her about what side of bed they woke up on. On a young horse or the experienced show veteran or the stiff old horse, longing is used for different reasons and for different purposes. Warmup day vs first day of the show vs last day of the show are all going to be different for how the horse should be warmed up before it’s class. Often I prefer a hand walk to a lunge.
OP, I’m sorry you worked for a jerk at WEF and it turned you off horse. I too have worked for a couple narcissists and one true horse abuser (I quit in a huff and have never felt happier about leaving a job). “Lunging for hours” is honestly one of the more minor sins I’ve seen in pursuit of fame & glory in the horse world, but it’s one that’s often brought up in the context of hunters (yet people do it to jumpers, western horses, etc).
I use longing as a warmup, an assesment of the horse that day, an alternative to turnout especially for a horse that’s used to turnout, and to remind him that he has to focus on his rider/ handler not the excitement of the horse show. There is also a huge safety aspect to making sure an amateur understands what kind of horse they’re sitting on today. But I was taught to longe by true masters of the sport, and I demand similar high standards from my grooms or I do the longing myself.
Good of you to stop the buck passing before it rolls all the way down to the grooms. But why not insist that ammies do better. Don’t like how your horse is prepped? Then come in the AM and lunge or hack it (or hand walk or hand graze) yourself.
I have been a groom and sent out with a horse to lunge at dawn. I can lunge them in a way that leaves them alone to just use their body as they want (perhaps the only time they get that at the horse show) and I also know how to lunge a horse in ways that keeps him quite controlled, whether for training or a lameness exam. Having worked at the shows, I see why a pro isn’t out there hacking each one herself; there’s not time for her to sit on each one and some horses really do enjoy or need time to stretch out their body without a rider on board.
But the level of horsemanship that says you ride what you have or get up earlier to prepare your horse to do well is part of what it means to horse show. I don’t think that going to a horse show entitles one to have someone else do that job better. if you chose to show and own the horse (and employ all these folks) then the buck stops with you. And it actually is possible for each ammy to come out in the morning and take care of her own horse’s prep. You might not like it, but it is possible. And for lots of us, that’s a normal horse show day.
Totally agree @mvp. The buck stops with the trainer.
I think (and I’m speculating here) that possibly some head trainers are afraid for their adult amateurs (or even their juniors) to learn too much horsemanship because then the client won’t need them or the business model that depends on full service grooming & tack up even at the home barn?
The flip side to that is that if you dont have enough clients paying for full grooming & tack up then maybe you don’t have the steady cash flow to employ all the grooms and give them a decent salary/ housing/ tips/ insert any staff bonus here.
Hmm. Am I barking up the wrong tree?
Of course it’s possible. Nothing against it myself. But this topic always tends to have a whiff of “prep is bad” (not from everyone) and I’ve also ridden with a couple of trainers since I long ago stopped grooming who rarely prep horses (and don’t want them prepped, I’ve asked if I can ride in the morning before the classes and they say no). And then I go in and have a borderline runaway hunter round on a much different horse than I ride at home. Which is a poor experience for both of us! I wouldn’t have cared if it were me or a groom or the trainer (safely and responsibly) prepping in the morning in that case.
ETA - we’re on the same page. Just wanted to also add that my combo of grooming experience and now amateur experience is maybe kind of odd. Back in the day I groomed for a show program that had more investment and sales horses at the show than am-owned/ridden horses, so there was no amateur to do their own prep in the morning. And since leaving the business I ride with smaller programs that often don’t have a groom at the shows and man, some show days I would be delighted to have a “me” there to help me do. . . anything at all. Not all the time and not everything, but grooms are great!
You are not barking up the wrong tree.
So, as that client that was sometimes also the pro groom, it was a situation the trainer and I had to figure out for each show. Sometimes, it was great to have my pair of hands available. And other times-- usually with fewer horses and/or some client ideas, I couldn’t work. Her priority was to have enough enough work for the professional, 24/7 groom that she used at the shows. She didn’t have her guy from home come, but had a regular groom she’d employ at the shows the way pros have their regular braiders they like to book. I had to step aside when that was needed. She might let me do my own day care, as I was one of her more broke, but competent clients. But I had to tip the groom as though he had been caring for my horse and be there absolutely on-time for when the other horses were getting fed. I made friends with the groom, so it worked out.
She also had to manage her clients’ opinions about how/why I was allowed to do my own care. There could be some “entitlement” from folks which she had to stand up to. Some people wanted the right to also save money and do their own care… the problem was when those guys didn’t do a good job and then got pissed when call them out for not meeting expectations and they got pissed back. She would be pissed because they didn’t stop by to pick their horse’s stall or refill water buckets at night check; they’d be pissed because they were late at dinner and she didn’t just do this for them when she didn’t see them there. I see why a trainer would want to avoid this whole can of worms.
But if you start out by bossing around your clients while allowing them to feel entitled… I learned so much about how I’d do business if I were ever a pro, LOL. But she felt pressure to just duct tape together whatever solution kept her adult ammies safe, competitive and paying.
How come they didn’t want you to ride your horse in the morning? Did they have a better prep recipe than that and this one time they got it wrong? Your riding your own horse actually sounds ideal for both of you.
I had a horse whose best recipe was a lunge session on the afternoon the day before the show started. Yes, I brought the annoying 50’ line so that I took up lots of space. As he got older, I’d start this out with a long hand walk and graze where he’s just stop and stare at things. The more you let him look around, the less he’d do on the lunge. And then on the lunge, boy-howdy he liked his warm up. He’d do nothing until he was good and ready, and then buck and tear around for a few laps. But! You wanted to stop him a bit early so that he had something left in the tank. He was a horse who would leave it all on the lunge line so that you had to all but pick him up and carry him over the oxer at the end of a line going away from home.
Then and now, I like figuring out what it takes for each horse to be ready to go the best they can when they finally do get to the show ring. As an ammy (who had bred this one with intention and the best I knew), I was very proud that I could get him from his muddy paddock to the ring all by myself if I had to, no drugging involved. But as you can see from my description of his recipe, it took time to deliver and, of course, time to figure out.
You’re 100% right.
I will say there is a business model that sustains horsemanship & a groom’s salary without taking away from that.
My old barn is a prime example (top, top A barn that went to WEF, medal finals, trainer rode for on nations cup team multiple times).
Here it is:
30Ish horses
- 1 stall cleaner
- 1 groom
- 1 assistant
- 1 paid working student
- Groom & WS grooms horses in AM for trainer/assistant rides
- clients groom their own horses for lessons. If you have multiple horses, groom tacks up second mount and untacks first horse.
- clients have grooms at show. Bring home groom to earn show money and hire freelance groom at show (more like before show)
- WS stays home and does everything.
I completely understand insisting on grooming at the shows, from a trainers perspective. Now, I am a client and have a very hard time coming to terms with it because I’ve been paid to do it. Heck, I’ve been the assistant showing horses and had to tack up my own rides.
Trainers won’t do this, and I have no idea why. It seems pretty foolproof to me. Or just that clients don’t think they have the time to actually take care of their horse? Hmm…
