Longeing for fitness and balance

[Pehsness]

Bear with me, this is rambling and possibly nonsense.

For the 100th time I’m setting riding goals and trying to get both of us in shape for the spring.

I always start with longeing because it helps me to see him moving soundly - peace of mind. I have ptsd from a history of unsound horses, lol.

Longeing was foreign to him when I got him 5 years ago. Remember I muddled along alone for a long time. He would always explode into a fit of bucks and racing the minute he felt pressure or uncomfortable. So I would walk away from the longeing.

Yesterday I had a bit of a realization - please remember I’m a 35 year horseperson but still having epiphanies when it comes to training and correct ways of going.

Tracking left he was calm and lovely, floaty trot, on the voice aids, no issue.

Tracking right he was sound, but cue the explosive bucks. I realized - he isn’t balanced! He won’t hold a true circle tracking right, he falls in, starts to race, bucks and tries to wheel around (I think someone instilled some BS natural horsemanship somewhere in his past so he tries to face me).

Assuming for the sake of this question he has no physical issues outside of not being fit, am I on the right track? It makes so much sense to me, and gives me a clear path forward. When he is better able to hold a circle and move forward calmly, I’ll know we’ve gotten somewhere.

[RedHorses]

You could try doing exercises on the longe. I found the cloverleaf pattern very helpful. Walking the pattern, and adding in very short bits of trot help with balance and fitness. The alternating straight and bending track provides variation in demand. As the horse gets stronger the trot can be longer with variations in trot (shorter and longer strides).

[dmveventer]

You know your horse best, but explosive bucks and racing in just one direction is a pretty major reaction for just a loss of balance and strongly suggests something physical is going on. Since you say it’s been going on for years there could also be some learned behavior at this point or anticipation of pain, but I would want to be very sure there wasn’t anything current before I moved forward.

Either way I would not be lunging this horse right now, even if you do rule out any physical issues letting him run and buck like that is not productive and likely to reinforce bad habits. If it were my horse I’d have a vet out to do a thorough lameness exam and then, if he was cleared, I would be working him out in bigger spaces on straight lines and big curves, lots of walking on hills, and slowly building up to smaller circles as he builds fitness.

[merrygoround]

It’s been my observation, after many years of longing( and the delightful hand arthritis that now is a result, my cursive is cursed) that problems such as yours frequently come from pain. Have all four suspensories checked, along with foot balance. Unless of course there are no problems u/s.

[Willesdon]

What does he feel like when you are riding him?

[Pehsness]

There aren’t problems undersaddle that are equivalent, if that makes sense. he’s not riding 10 meter circles with ease, but he’s not a bronc when I ask.

I’ll do some more digging to see about the pain response - I’m just not getting that but of course don’t want to exacerbate anything. Feet are good, RMT says she feels no issues, his posture is excellent when at rest.

I thought I was on to something with the balance

[Pehsness]

He’s wiggly, needs a good warm up, still isn’t a fan of contact… but as long as he’s not barefoot he’s fine (all relative, of course. He’s an aging QH with a roping background).

[outerbanks77]

You might check out Manolo Mendez’s videos. He is all about balance with lunging. At first it’s just walking and getting the horse to bend, and slowly moving up to trotting and cantering, so it’s a good approach for horses that might have had a past of being “yee-hawed” around on the lunge.

[Willesdon]

Sometimes a bad problem is expressed on the opposite side.

[Pehsness]

So I just checked out a couple of clips on YouTube but I think that is a solution. He’s never been taught anything in hand.

I assume there are full videos available for a cost - worth it in your opinion?

And yes hawed on the longe is a good descriptor. My guess it was a get the bucks out before I get on situation. This horse has many holes in his foundation and I’m not educated enough to fix them alone, so he’s my lab rat, so to speak. Pampered beyond measure while I test out all of my theories and hypotheses and gain an education along the way.

[Pehsness]

I’m not ruling out a physical issue, but I’m not jumping to it either. I had a pretty extensive work up done a few years ago with radiographs and the whole 9 yards. The only issue presented was thin soles, which we now have mitigated.

If I start down the lameness rabbit hole he’ll never work again because I’ll decide everything is wrong. I’d rather see what fitness does first.

[outerbanks77]

Yes, I think they’re worth it. I have the Vimeo version and I think it was $30ish. In those videos, he does work with some horses with various backgrounds, so it’s not all just clean-slate youngsters.

[Cowboy_Girl]

Facing you down a rope/lunge line is not BS natural horsemanship. Its proper and safe rope handling taught by anyone that deals with long ropes, including lunge lines around horses. As as an english riding person that also ropes and rides stock horses (the same horse,) facing in at a halt on a circle is just being safe.

[atr]

Do you always start out on the same side? I always thought mine was fine and quiet going one way, but not the other, but then I realized that in fact I always started going to the left.

When I switched to start by going to the right, I discovered that the bucks and zoomies were actually related not to the direction of travel but to the duration of the work. Once he was nicely loosened up he’d bring on the fireworks.

I don’t lunge him but rarely nowadays. It just winds him up. I’m finally learning proper in-hand technique to get him loosened up and listening to me before I get on, and finding it very helpful. My trainer is teaching me how to spot any stiffness or imbalances with him in hand and work through them.

Neither of us are in our first flush of youth and we are finding this a kinder and gentler way to work out our kinks before my butt hits the saddle.

[Pehsness]

I am 100% certain he was not taught anything correctly. 110% certain, actually. I don’t know much but I definitely know that.

[Pehsness]

Oh, good point… and yes! I always start to the left. It’s like muscle memory at this point. I am going to try starting to the right.

The thing with this horse, i can just get on him and go. I don’t need to longe for safety. Something in my gut is just insisting that ground work is the way to go to achieve the soft and in tune partner I envision in the saddle. I feel like if I can master that aspect of horsemanship, many other things will fall in to place.

[SonnysMom]

I had one horse that was likely lunged to death to try to get him quiet. Arabian cross so it just made him fitter. He would have explosive moments and it was like he was panicking. I worked twice with a trainer to introduce side reins. He would quietly lunge in both directions.
I am not big on lunging. But I feel it is a skill all horses should have. It is a useful tool to check soundness and for the vet to see if necessary.

[luvmyhackney]

@Cowboy_Girl

Facing you down a rope/lunge line is not BS natural horsemanship. Its proper and safe rope handling taught by anyone that deals with long ropes, including lunge lines around horses. As as an english riding person that also ropes and rides stock horses (the same horse,) facing in at a halt on a circle is just being safe.

It’s a habit/training I absolutely hate. I refuse to buy a horse that does it.

It’s not a safely thing. When a horse halts they should stay straight and feet in place unless told otherwise.

[CanteringCarrot]

@luvmyhackney

@Cowboy_Girl

Facing you down a rope/lunge line is not BS natural horsemanship. Its proper and safe rope handling taught by anyone that deals with long ropes, including lunge lines around horses. As as an english riding person that also ropes and rides stock horses (the same horse,) facing in at a halt on a circle is just being safe.

It’s a habit/training I absolutely hate. I refuse to buy a horse that does it.

It’s not a safely thing. When a horse halts they should stay straight and feet in place unless told otherwise.

Yeah, especially because if you go to longline and the horse is used to facing you whenever it stops on a long line/rope…

Don’t get me wrong, long lining isn’t the same as being on a lunge line going in circles, but still. The horse should stay straight (on the track they were traveling on) with feet still.

I’ve sort of done both in that one type of whistling tells my horse to stop. The other whistle tells him to turn in on the lunge line, which is usually followed by another signal to come to the center. So not an automatic turn in when stopped. I use whistling and body language, but words work too.

[endlessclimb]

Agree with those who say a horse should not turn in to face when asked to whoa. Whoa means plant your feet, or “stop flat”. I quickly train that turning in garbage out of any horse I’m working with.

Whoa doesn’t mean “slip your haunches out from under you and take a few extra steps.” It means plant your hind end and quit moving pronto.