Looking for a new Hame-style harness, no turrets -draft size

As you all know I have Percherons.

I have recently sold my leather show harness (for draft shows). Plus, my beta harness (also with turrets) is going on a decade old and starting to show some wear.

I am looking to buy a new set of pairs harness. I would like a buggy harness (no turrets) with hames and collar, that is beta and is nice enough looking to take into lower level pleasure/dressage shows. Think about the harness that is often used for pairs of Freisians in the USA -that is the look I am aiming for. Everywhere I look seems to sell these harnesses for horses but not drafts! The issue appears to be finding a high quality hames set. My drafts aren’t very drafty compared to some and the pair that I am trying to fit are the two on my main home page (Katie and Soleil). They wear a size 24 collar. I do not want leather. Even if it costs me points, I am so done with cleaning, oiling and keeping leather in my kitchen pantry.

Ocala (http://www.ocalacarriage.com/harnessesforsale.htm) carriage advertises that they can get them but they don’t have a photograph on their site. That makes me a little leary. Does anyone have harness from them and is it suitable for pleasure shows?

Does anyone know of another company who might make such a harness. I am not looking for cheap although I don’t need the brand name (think $$$) of Smuckers or Hunts either.

Any help would be appreciated.

Jill

I am missing something in this. You want hames with no terrets or saddles with no terrets? What will you run the reins thru?

Advanced Equine sells Zilco, a widely accepted synthetic harness. Not sure they have hames but you could ask.

Several other folks on here have local suppliers that have made their harnesses for them out of the matte finish Beta material. Cartfall and Ashmont both like their synthetics very well. Maybe their maker could do a set of the hames for you, along with the rest of the harness.

I must have missed something about Fresians, thought their harness looked pretty much like any other Pair harness for light horses. Exactly what details sets it apart? Any photos we could go look at?

[QUOTE=goodhors;4037800]
I am missing something in this. You want hames with no terrets or saddles with no terrets? What will you run the reins thru?

Advanced Equine sells Zilco, a widely accepted synthetic harness. Not sure they have hames but you could ask.

Several other folks on here have local suppliers that have made their harnesses for them out of the matte finish Beta material. Cartfall and Ashmont both like their synthetics very well. Maybe their maker could do a set of the hames for you, along with the rest of the harness.

I must have missed something about Fresians, thought their harness looked pretty much like any other Pair harness for light horses. Exactly what details sets it apart? Any photos we could go look at?[/QUOTE]

“You want hames with no terrets”

Yep. The hames for draft horses are called farm hames, hames with balls, show hames, and I have heard them referred to as hames with turrets. I think because there are usually rein turrets on the hames, which with draft horse harness is where the reins run. There are so many names for that type of hames that I am unsure what to call them but that is what is usually made for draft horse size. Therein lies my problem.

I am looking for buggy hames and collar harness, without balls or turrets, in draft horse sizes in stainless, not brass.

Yes, it is the basic buggy style collar for light horses, I gave Freisians as an example because there is a “look” that they often go for. Black harness, stainless, no spots (except for sometimes on the browband, there is chain or some sort of stainless “bling”). Reins dark brown, sometimes they look matt black. I also gave Freisians as an example because I think some of the harness (really hames are the issue) I see on them would fit my girls. The hames are often fancy with a stainless hook latching system on the bottom for attaching to each other. I can open up driving digest and find the type of harness again and again on Freisians but you certainly see it on other light horses too. But I can’t figure out who makes it.

So yes, with draft horse hames, the reins run through turrets found on the hames. I had never really thought of that before and that that was different from a light horse collar harness system.

As an aside, it is amazing how many different words there are for harness parts in the “draft” world, compared to the light horse world. You would think the language would be the same. I am having to think about what terminology I use (tugs/traces, shaft loop holders/tugs, girth/belly band, spider/loin strap, breeching strap/hold back strap, etc.). Of course, I still have a foot in the draft world, so what comes out of my mouth tends to be a tumble of more than one word for the same thing -rrr. I do that often enough with my kids and pet names.

Zilco is a good idea. I hadn’t thought of them.

Draft Harness

I also drive a pair of Percherons. I bought my buggy collar and hames plus interchangeable parts for a hungarian breast collar marathon harness, all bio, from Main Street Harness, formerly A&H Harness, who were former Smucker’s harness makers. All in Navron Pa.

It took two tries via mail and measurements to get the leather buggy collars wide enough, but the fit is now perfect.
I bought the deluxe quality matt finish bio harness that from a distance looks almost like leather. I have gotten many compliments on the harness.

I bought bio russet lines 5/8" for my small hands. The lines would be the only part I might change to leather. Otherwise besides the ease of just hosing it all off,
it is much easier for me to lift up over the big guys.

R.Wagner
Hillsborough NC

Looking at more photos, I see that most buggy harnesses hames have rein rings also…the photos I am finding (basically old driving digest photos) show pony hames as not having rein rings but then again, maybe I am just not seeing them on the photos. I am looking at #149 of the driving digest, page 54 and at least this one photo, the reins goes straight to the saddle.

So, stupid question (as I am just not used to pleasure driving harness and want to understand the differences between what I am used and what I am trying to learn) but here goes: In looking at photos (with my bad eyes), do all pleasure driving hames have rings for the reins and do some people just not use them and is this right?

Or is at least the one photo I found that is very clear, that the person not set up her reins correctly -with the reins bypassing the hames and going right to the saddle?

I know this must all sound so tedious but it is in the understanding of the little details (and how things work) that I can put the pieces together better.

I hope this makes sense.

Some folks DO bypass the rein rings (terrets) on the hames and also the shoulder strap of breastcollar harness. They might run the reins UNDER the shoulder strap on breastcollar harness. This setting keeps reins from looping out to snag a shaft and allows much rein slide/movement up or down to go with the bit of headset. Seen more with very low headed horses. Folks DO always run the reins thru the terrets on the harness saddle.

You have to look at the horse being used, what is the line from mouth to hands on driver? Conformation, taking into account what stage in horse training he is at. Often a horse will have a low head carriage, so using the rings on shoulder area makes the rein line, (bit to hands) break in too many places. Gives horse wrong signals, pulls him wrongly from what your desired head carriage would be when he is finished developing. You want as straight a line as possible, less drag on his face in taking him up or releases.

I would think your larger horses would have their heads naturally carried with bits even or above the line with reins, bit to hands. Higher set neck would allow them to get a horizontal nose, move “on the bit” rather easily, still keeping the rein line rather straight. Shoulder terrets of buggy hames would be right in line with saddle terrets.

If you are looking at Pleasure Driving, there are nuances with certain kinds of hames. If I have the correct hames in my mind, with the hook bottom, chain between, I think that is for Gig Harness use. Special dress-up harness, not a common hame. Out of place on less formal vehicles. I use the Mischka Calendars as a good reference, AND found on line!

http://www.mischka.com/shop/product.php?productid=16674&cat=0&page=1&featured

Give it a minute to load all the photos. There is a Unicorn of light horses, with Leader wearing the hames I am thinking of, but Turnout is a Formal vehicle and people and horses are dressed to suit the vehicle. Horse is wearing a correct, SPECIAL saddle for a Leader. He could also be a correctly turned out, Tandem Leader with a Wheeler and fancy Gig behind him. Gig is also very formal when turned out correctly.

Just some of those picky details from Traditional turnouts in the past. The ADS rule book has much information about what is correct harness, bits, hames, to go with various vehicles, as you look at classes to compete for Pleasure Driving.

Runabout harness is not suitable for Gig horse or Tandem horses. Like your draft hitch, best show harness is not suitable for a Marathon vehicle at a CDE, just in the wrong setting.

There is a “language” of horses, harness, vehicles, and what goes together correctly. The knowledgable viewer will see MUCH and deduce more, just by looking at the Turnout as it goes by. Seeing if you mixed styles, went for total correctness, or have just come to drive around. The “silent appraisal” of people meeting unknown people in a new setting happens all the time. We all do it as we go out to play. Could be Draft folks, steelworkers, fishermen, cowboys or Rodeo cowboys, checking each other out to reach a conclusion about how “real” or knowledgable the others are in this skill area. I know I always check out the cowboy hats, see the creases and brims, because “real” cowboys treat their hats a certain way. Visible when you look at them. Knowing and observation of situations, people, keeps you from harm in many settings.

Brubachers Harness (www.brubachersharness.ca) in the heart of Amish country near Kitchener Ontario has a free catalogue and supplies draft harness to many Amish farmers in Ontario. They have a large mailorder tack business and a good reputation for service. With the Canadian dollar currently low there may be some advantage to buying from there.

[QUOTE=goodhors;4039360]

http://www.mischka.com/shop/product.php?productid=16674&cat=0&page=1&featured

Give it a minute to load all the photos. There is a Unicorn of light horses, with Leader wearing the hames I am thinking of, but Turnout is a Formal vehicle and people and horses are dressed to suit the vehicle. Horse is wearing a correct, SPECIAL saddle for a Leader. He could also be a correctly turned out, Tandem Leader with a Wheeler and fancy Gig behind him. Gig is also very formal when turned out correctly. [/QUOTE]

hmmm. Love that harness, it looks like the Smuckers Pairs Super Deluxe (way out of my price range -especially for draft sizes) but I love that look on bigger horses. I will never, ever drive marathon and so the need for a harness for that purpose isn’t there. But I love the look of that on big horses, especially for pleasure driving but of course, in synthetic (grin).

Good hors, thank you for your wealth of knowledge and for reassuring me that I am not going crazy worrying about how everyone is running their reins through the hames! This stuff is important (at least to me) I can sit with my magazine’s spread out in front of me and just soak in all the nuances of harness: hames, saddles, reins, etc. But that is how I learn, I have to really study this stuff to understand what is right (and wrong) for each situation. So many different (and often subtle) disciplines in driving: each with their own style.

And yes, I am following up on all these tips for finding harness. I have a couple of really good leads now.

Goodhors - good posting

As an aside, I went driving today, studied my harness in detail and confirmed what I suspected. None of my draft horse harnesses have rein turrets on the saddle. We run the reins from the rein rings on the hames to the rein keepers on the spider.

I think that is why we draft horse people tend to use rein keepers on the spider! I remember once having a discussion with Thomas about this once and how my reins would fall off the butt of my big horses without rein keepers. It turns out there is a good reason for those keepers, but it never occurred to me because my draft harnesses is buiilt just a little different than pleasure harness -in the USA at least (no rein turrets on the saddle)!

What’s a “sp![](der” … and don’t say a black hairy thing with 8 legs! :winkgrin: I meant in the context that Cielo used the word.

Do you have a photo to show us your horse in harness so we know what you mean?

I’ve not come across a full collar without having hame rings for pleasure driving, no matter what size horse you have.

If you’re thinking of showing in agricultural classes then it might have leather keepers rather than hame terrets which are in effect just the same thing as far as their purpose. However it’s not the norm not to have rein terrets on the saddle, whether it’s a pleasure or agricultural driving horse.

Here you’ll see the leather rein keepers on the full collar but you’ll note there’s still terrets on the saddle.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/flodden_edge/Driving/DSCF0046.jpg)

Here’s me with a friesian pair and you’ll see full collar with hames and terrets on collar and saddle:
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/flodden_edge/Driving/freisianpair0009.jpg)

Minor pet peeve

“terret” is the ring the reins go through.
“turret” is something you stick a gun out of.
:smiley:

I didn’t use my own photos but poked around on the web.

http://chestertontribune.com/juli-williams-stopped-in-ri.jpg
This photo is really clear (ignore everything else -like the ill fitting cart). There is not a rein turret on the saddle.

http://stpaulsaddlery.com/Images/SPS_Logo.png

http://www.horseloversheadquarters.com/members/570970/uploaded/Draft_Horse_Harness_Parts.jpg
Here is a typical work harness. You can see the reins run from the hames to the hands.

http://www.mydrafthorse.com/cfwebstore/images/products/Harness/3-Strap-Bio-Harness.jpg
Hard to see the reins but what you don’t see are rein turrets on the saddle (because they aren’t there)

If you scroll down on this smucker page, you can see the back and hip strap(as you would call them I think) labeled as a “Breeching Spider” (part G). I really am not pulling these different terms out of some (profane) body part! They are typical draft terms for harness parts.
http://www.smuckersharness.com/pg33.html
Also note that this harnesss does have rein turrets on the saddle (as some of the high end show harness does -especially for shire/clydes).

What is also interesting is that while Belgian and Percheron heavy horse harness does not usually have rein turret on the saddles, the shire show harness sometimes does. In this country, shire and clydes have brass colored harness while the Perch/Belgians always show in stainless.

I know, more detail that anyone but me is interested in…

Sigh. I have shown in more draft horse shows than I can count, it is time for a change (although it appears I am back at it starting in May). I enjoy them at the local level but I don’t enjoy the scotch bottom shoes, the over-checks, the lack of rules and regs, and the macho stuff that comes with the draft horse territory. That is why I am studying, studying, studying pleasure driving. I am ready for a new challenge and wish to transition but it is a slow process for me.

Its tErrets

Not as in Terrets Syndrome :wink: not Turrets as in a small tower.

Rein tErrets

I’d call “spiders” britching straps or quarter straps.

Only time I’ve seen agricultural harness without terrets on the saddle is when the horse is being worked in hand or from a low agricultural implement

While the spelling Nazis are still making an appearance, it is Tourette’s syndrome.

But if we need pony-related, I am still looking for a pair harness for my 12.3 and 13 hand Welsh. Someone could also expound on the differing usage for “team” and “pair”.

Bothwell Manor Welsh & Sport Ponies
in sunny Ontario Canada

Two horses is a pair if you’re a pleasure or CDE driver. Team is a four in hand, unless you’re a draft driver in which case a team is a pair. :confused:

Are you looking for pleasure harness, marathon harness or what? I got nice synthetic pairs marathon harness last year from FEO in Georgia: http://www.feonow.com/ I am in the process of ordering a synthetic single pleasure harness from them. They also supply leather harness.

Karen (Spelling Nazi, I guess? But I do know that it’s Tourette’s syndrome, gun turret and rein terret :winkgrin:)

[QUOTE=fancyponies;4046360]
While the spelling Nazis are still making an appearance, it is Tourette’s syndrome.[/QUOTE] It was a joke…

But if we need pony-related, I am still looking for a pair harness for my 12.3 and 13 hand Welsh. Someone could also expound on the differing usage for “team” and “pair”.
pair is 2 and team is 4 or more

If you’re in the UK a pair is always 2. Or rather 2 is always a pair.

Must be that famous “dry” British humour Thomas/

Karen, I would like to find pair harness for pleasure use; prefer collar type harness. Thanks for clarifying the team-pair usage.
Bothwell Manor Welsh and Sport Ponies

Fancyponies…

There are many good harnessmakers around. Everybody has their favorites. Maybe start a separate thread so that other will see it and offer suggestions. Meanwhile, here’s a list of suppliers to get you started:

http://www.caaonline.com/caa_content.asp?PageType=Dept&Key=6&MType=HA&MTypeDesc=Harness