Looking for advice from Northerners who have moved south

[JanM]

Another reason to wear shoes whenever you go outside is fire ants. Get nailed by some of them, and you’ll be sorry. I use a pen with ammonia in it, right on the bites, and it helps a lot (It’s called after bite, and you get it at the pharmacy), next to the first aid cream. Or benadryl or cortisone cream works too.

I’ve run into a few racist here, but the most outspoken ones I’ve ever had the unpleasant experience of working with or being related to were from Massachusetts, or Pennsylvania.

Environment consciousness varies by location. I used to live in the county, and they had zero recycling, and I think there were turn in days for hazardous materials. Where I live now is in a growing town, and we have recycling bins that are as big as my trash can, and there are regular turn in days for hazardous materials.

I’ve run into a few bad drivers, but that’s usually during rush hours (yes, we have them).

[hosspuller]

Born & raised in NYC, A Yankee by birth, a Southerner by choice and chance for 37 years. The last 20 in North Carolina. I liked Atlanta except for 4 things… June, July, August, and the traffic. North Carolina has rapidly changed in 20 years. The small college town of Greensboro is an exo-suburb. My farm land had history growing tobacco for about 100 years. 10 years ago that changed.

Differences: Pollen in the Spring. Lots of it, Cars become green. Allergy sufferers suffer and medicate. Bugs, crawling, flying and biting…lots of them. The Summer weather is as hot & humid as Atlanta but there are periods of respite. Winter weather is similar. Snow, ice … everything shuts down for a few days. The difference is equipment. Then it all melts away. We were riding in the woods last week wearing only a light jacket. SIL in Vermont comes for a week to get a break from the snow. Religion: Churches are more plentiful than North. Although the Northern people are more likely to exclaim “Jesus, Christ !” when they smash a finger or such event. Yes, people ask you as a new comer. Don’t take offense. Consider it an invitation. As you would invite a friend to a party or an activity you enjoy. They are just being friendly.

I have noticed the more impatient and unruly drivers seem to be from the numerous new housing developments. I attribute this to city people moving to the South and exo-suburbs. They seems to relish the open areas and loose their dogs and kids on toys on to planted crop fields. I’ve had to educate a few of them.

OP … Come on down. Just do as the Romans do in Rome. Otherwise, the conditions you’re escaping will follow you.

[J-Lu]

House insulation…or lack thereof…in the South. Up North, it could be cold outside but it didn’t feel so cold inside because houses are insulated, windows are double pained and generally “fit” in their frame, and heat vents are often lower to the floor because, well, heat rises.

I’m freezing inside houses when it’s below 50 outside in southern states! Most houses have poor insulation, drafty windows, and the heat vents are near the ceiling. Heating and cooling is very inefficient.

Everything shuts down with even the threat of snow. If it snows, forget about travel. It can take days for side streets to get plowed. On the plus side, snow is usually gone within a couple of days. But ice can be a real problem. No one has snow tires.

[keysfins]

Although the euphemistic and colloquial name used is “Palmetto Bug”, that particular creature is actually a giant flying cockroach. Other terms used are “water bug” and “croton bug”. They are still giant flying cockroaches.

Mentholatum rub (for those of us in the senior set who remember such things) is also a remedy for fire ant bites. Cool things about fire ants, no pun intended: their extensive nests can become a work of art, with the right skills, and molten aluminum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGJ2jMZ-gaI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xvsxarw-J0

[Jackie_Cochran]

NC is one of the heartlands of NASCAR. On the interstates at least I’ve seen plenty of drivers mimicking the moves of the race drivers, speed and all. The country roads are better, unless someone is late for work, then traffic and road laws do not seem to matter.

Of course NASCAR wannabes are not limited to NC, I’ve seen them up North too during the last decade or so. It seems that NASCAR type driving has infected the nation.

The Southern culture in NC has improved greatly since I moved here in 1971, but there are still strong bastions of racism, sexism, poverty, lack of grocery stores in poor areas, but the country people no longer seem primed to accost those different than them.

One time, the wife of the guy we bought our hay from, was STRONGLY suggesting that I join her Southern Baptist church. All I had to do was say that I had believed in evolution since I was 10 years old, so I could not in good conscious join her church. She said she respected my strongly held beliefs and backed off. Since she politely backed off I did not have to get into how I was a feminist, not a Christian, believer in a woman’s right to choose and other really sensitive topics down here. I am still sort of regarded as an amiable foreigner.

If you tip well in the restaurants the waitresses LOVE you. My husband and I look like old hippies and we never had any problems in our local restaurant since I ALWAYS said please and thank you, usually several times when I ordered, when she brings the food to the table, and when she asks if we need anything else. I have had several waitresses tell me that they love serving me and we are always greeted with smiles.

The South is a complicated place. I think that many of the people still suffer from various parasite loads because the parasites and their insect vectors do not always die off over the winter, which seems to get people set in their ways. As long as you are polite, say Sir, Ma’am, please and thank you and smile pleasantly people are usually willing to let obvious differences pass, except for the inevitable “you are not from around here, are you?”

North Carolina is the finest state in America as far as I am concerned. While the public schools are not top notch I know several local people that got their undergraduate degrees at UNC Chapel Hill, one of the top and most selective Public Universities in the nation. My sons got a decent high school education in Stanly County, one got into UNC Chapel Hill and the other one got into the science residential high school for the super bright kids. As long as you are relatively near the major cities top notch medical care is available, especially if you have insurance to pay for it.

Believe it or not North Carolina was at one time known as “the good road” state though there have been some funding problems lately, but the basic infrastructure is here. North Carolina is the most convenient state I have ever lived in, gas stations are usually just a mile or two away even in the countryside in the Piedmont (center of the state), lots of local restaurants of the meat and two veggies variety are in every town, as well as many, many Hispanic restaurants and at least here in Stanly County the small towns have managed to revive themselves. In Oakboro, NC, my local town, hispanic immigrants started a local Mexican type ice cream factory, and the local convenience stores carry them.

My horses moved here first, in the 1980’s. People looked at us oddly at first, but when we proved ourselves by doing a 60 mile round trip a day to feed and water the horses and keeping our horses well fed and healthy, the local farming people sort of shrugged off any negative feelings they had and settled on being amused by us.

When my sons went to my local high school he was in a top notch drama department, with a passionate teacher who persuaded the richer parents to donate a lot of expensive theater equipment, and put on original adaptations of stories, very well done even though they were given in a sort of dingy high school assembly room. The schools vary down here, but at the Stanly County public schools my kids got a decent education (supplemented by us of course, for one they ignore evolution).

So far we have been “robbed” a lot more by loose dogs than by local people. Their is local crime but rarely major unless someone goes off with a loaded gun. I did not particularly worry about guns in the school like I did in Charlotte because the boys are raised with guns and have been educated (sometimes severely) in the proper handling of guns. Since I BELIEVE in the 2nd Amendment I have no problems with the Stanly County gun culture.

There are areas that are jewels in the South, you just have to find one and adapt to the horrible heat and the even more horrible humidity in the Summer. Luckily air conditioning is wide spread.

[cutter99]

@J-Lu

House insulation…or lack thereof…in the South. Up North, it could be cold outside but it didn’t feel so cold inside because houses are insulated, windows are double pained and generally “fit” in their frame, and heat vents are often lower to the floor because, well, heat rises.

I’m freezing inside houses when it’s below 50 outside in southern states! Most houses have poor insulation, drafty windows, and the heat vents are near the ceiling. Heating and cooling is very inefficient.

Everything shuts down with even the threat of snow. If it snows, forget about travel. It can take days for side streets to get plowed. On the plus side, snow is usually gone within a couple of days. But ice can be a real problem. No one has snow tires.

We handled the freezing house situation by doing a total gut rehab when we bought a farm with an existing house. New windows, outer walls, and attic insulated. We did specifically look for a house with a basement for tornado protection, and basements are harder to find down here.

We have learned to plan ahead and stay home if there is snow or ice. Here it is an accepted reason to stay home and no one faults you for doing so.

[Inclined]

Born in NC, and back to stay after many years out and about. @Jackie Cochran described it very accurately, as have several others. One thing to note is that the Appalachian region of the southern states does not share the same weather patterns as the piedmont/coastal plain areas. Our weather here in the northern NC highlands is much more like the mid-atlantic or northeast, with January temps often in the subzero and single digits. It snows quite a bit here, and it rains a good bit in the warmer seasons.

When we moved back to NC from northern Virginia five years ago, one of the things that bothered me the most was getting caught behind slow moving vehicles. I realized during one particularly annoying drive that I had become one of “them” - an urban dweller! It took a while, but eventually we all learned to take a deep breath and slow down. Our neighbors have been welcoming and helpful, even though we’re not from this particular area. The only two things I really miss about VA are our Anglican church and shopping in Middleburg.

[allons-y]

The furthest North I’ve ever lived was North Alabama, Huntsville. Rocket Scientists, Werner Von Braun types in town, share-cropper cabins 20 minutes out. It was my childhood home and I loved it, tornados, ice storms and all. Then we moved to Florida (hubby was one of those rocket scientists) to work on the Space Shuttle. The Shuttle Program and my DH were retired and we moved to MS to be closer to family.

So I’m used to the heat, humidity and bugs. Florida where I was wasn’t really southern, lots of Northern influences. I learned to eat bagels in Florida, just like a Yankee. Alabama and Mississippi are very church oriented, Florida less so.

Coming from (Northern-seeming) Florida, I have to curb my impatience with slow transactions here. Local electricians, plumbers, Farriers, even Police officers, all abide by the southern social code. First you slowly trace back where your family was from, who you’re related to, where your family members now live, who you went to school with, what church you attended as a child, etc. Then, appropriate social connections established, they settle in to do their work. I am not from around here, but my husband is, Thank Goodness, or I probably couldn’t get anything done! I’ve learned to go do a 30 minute to 1 hour chore, then when I return, everyone is smiling and working and my impatience didn’t get on anyone’s nerves.

[NoSuchPerson]

@allons-y

Coming from (Northern-seeming) Florida,

Yes, in Florida you get a compass reversal. Northern Florida is still very much part of the south but the farther south you go, the more northern it gets. And then Miami, of course, is, well, something else entirely.

Sadly (in my opinion), even northern Florida is beginning to lose it’s southern character because we just have so many people moving here from other states.

[Texarkana]

I’m originally from PA. I went to college in the Lynchburg, VA area, then headed down to Nashville, TN and the surrounding areas for 11 years, Austin, TX for over a year… eventually landed back in MD.

I love Tennessee, but after 11 years, I was ready to come back north. Nashville is a great city, although experiencing a lot of growing pains. There’s a joke in the music biz that it’s a “10 year town.” I never thought I’d ever want to leave, but no kidding, after 10 years, I fell victim to the stereotype.

Depending on what you are used to, the horse scene in middle TN leaves a lot to be desired (despite having some of the hands down best climate for horses). Coming from MA, you may not be as familiar with just how rural some of the US can get… and in those rural areas, horse activity becomes almost non-existent.

The south certainly has its charms, but also has cultural facets that can be difficult to deal with if you were raised otherwise. The current political climate was wearing on me, as it emboldened those cultural facets I dislike, but could previously ignore. The good news is that if you are in a large city (Nashville, Atlanta, Austin, etc.), there’s a lot of diversity… but when you head out to the rural areas, the population and mindset becomes pretty homogeneous.

I’ve been back “north” about 9 months. I’m missing the southern weather like crazy! But I’m loving my horse life again.

[StormyDay]

As others have said, the south is a complicated place. It won’t be labeled or pinned down. The south is such a large area too, so even weather is completely different depending on where you are talking about. Something I say about one town in completely the opposite in another town. Masterpieces have been written there, alongside some of the worst racism you will ever see. Some of the most intelligent, forward thinking people you will meet live next to people who firmly believe that the earth began only a few thousand years ago and African Americans are inferior. A town overflowing with money sits next to a community without running water or a police department. If you call for an ambulance there, you won’t get one. The hospital is a mile away.
Depending on your location, your adaptability, and how rose colored your glasses can be, you will love it or you will hate it. Many, many people come down and stay for life, and some come down and then leave as soon as they can.
If you would like knowledge on Southern pines, Raleigh, Greensboro, Charlotte, Tryon, Camden, or Aiken please let me know

Edit for more info: If you are in the costal states of the south, NC, SC, GA, FL, expect hay to be very expensive. I paid anywhere from 8.50 for hay I bought ‘under the table’ off trucks to 20$ for hay from feed stores. They have a hay called coastal but it is very bad hay, I would not trust it. Grain is about to same as up north.
Bugs are bad. I found that the gnats were the most bothersome. Wear sunglasses, then they won’t fly into your eyes. Mosquitoes are bad if you are unlucky enough to be by standing water. Large flying cockroaches and beetles tend to be very bad in SC and below, and make visits to NC depending on where you live. My dad cut down a tree to find thousands of cockroaches inside.
The grass is Bermuda usually, sometimes you can grow some other grasses but it’s not as high quality as up north. I found horses couldn’t keep their weight on with just grass alone like they can up north. If you are in the mountains some people have success with orchard grass.

[NoSuchPerson]

@StormyDay

A town overflowing with money sits next to a community without running water or a police department. If you call for an ambulance there, you won’t get one. The hospital is a mile away.

You’re talking about St. Louis, right? Or maybe you mean Chicago? Or Detroit?

Many of the things you are claiming to be problems in the south are not confined to the south. Detroit is the most segregated city in the US and Chicago is number 2.

While I don’t deny that we have problems with racism in the south, you are fooling yourself if you don’t think it’s also a problem up north. For example:

the rural Northeast and the South are the most racist areas of the United States.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0122963

Hall points to research that shows African-Americans in Massachusetts fare worse than the rest of the country in economic and education measures. And, nationwide, blacks are nearly six times more likely than whites to be incarcerated; in Massachusetts, they’re almost eight times more likely. “To me that says that Boston and Massachusetts [have] more significant problems with race than other places in the country,” Hall said.
https://aclum.org/uncategorized/bostons-complicated-enduring-legacy-systemic-racism/

But the percentage of black students in the South who attend schools that are 90-100 percent black is lower than in any other region, according to a 2014 study by UCLA’s Civil Rights Project. The Northeast was the only region where the number of segregated schools has increased since 1968.
https://civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/research/k-12-education/integration-and-diversity/brown-at-60-great-progress-a-long-retreat-and-an-uncertain-future/Brown-at-60-051814.pdf

The black unemployment rate nationwide was 2.1 times the white unemployment rate. But in the South, the rate averaged out to 2.05, again showing that, in Southern states, blacks are hired slightly more often than the national average. In addition, of the 18 states with a black unemployment rate lower than 10 percent, 11 were Southern states.
http://www.epi.org/publication/state-unemployment-rates-by-race-and-ethnicity-at-the-end-of-2016-show-progress-but-not-yet-full-recovery/

We note that the states with the highest ratio of disparity in imprisonment are generally those in the northeast or upper Midwest, while Southern states tend to have lower ratios.The low Southern ratios are generally produced as a result of high rates of incarceration for all racial groups.
http://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/color-of-justice-racial-and-ethnic-disparity-in-state-prisons/

[Marla_100]

@cwg

Snakes bother the horses much?

In 40+ years in Florida, I’ve only had a couple run-ins with horses. Had a young horse playing nose ball with a coral
snake years ago. Luckily I saw it happening and intervened- no damage. But I did have a yearling get nabbed in
the nose by a water moccasin just a couple years back. but we were boarding at a farm with a large swampy
area close by and knew the risks since we saw the snakes so often.
Now my kitty got nabbed by a Diamondback years back.

But overall, it’s not bad, just know what’s prevalent in your area. And if you’re trail riding, always watch the ground.

[walkinthewalk]

I retired, with intent, from the OH/PA border to southern Middle Tennessee 15 years ago. We have 25 acres on a farm road that is barely more than one lane. I was raised on a dairy farm in Ohio, so the only difference in “the way of gong” for me, is the Mason-Dixon Line that is figurative.

i am strictly a trail rider, so finding like-minded riders was never difficult when I could still ride.

We have three varieties of venomous snakes but I grew up around rattlesnakes, so watching out for them is second nature.

Three months out of the year I whine about the horrible humidity which seems to be getting worse. My area seems to be getting more “Louisiana style” humidity with each passing year. Still-in-all, my arthritis is happier complaining about humidity than the weeks and weeks of never ending damp/bone chilling cold I lived with for the first 50 years of my life.

we get along fine with our neighbors — there are 18 homes on my remote road and the bulk are farmers and/or horse & cattle people who still work their land. I am as peaceful & content living here today, as I was the day we pulled into this property in 2003:)

I do miss home from time-to-time but it’s my remaining family and my life-long trail riding buddies I miss — the land where I live is every bit as lush and pretty as the land I left on the OH/PA border:)

[js]

Everything that tbchick84 said. Heat and humidity in the summer which is 9 months of the year, the other 3 months are cold and humidity. You are subject to severe thunder storms year round, hurricanes during hurricane season too. We lived 28 years in the Deep South. While we had some good neighbors we had plenty that didn’t like outsiders i.e. those not born there.

Be prepared for everyone asking you what church you go to, it will be the first thing they ask. Your answer will determine if they like you or not.

Snakes are there, just keep grass mowed short as they prefer taller grass to hide in and always look where you step. Use snake away around house and barn for what it’s worth. Some snakes can be nice to have around as they will help keep the mouse population in check.

Fire ants are everywhere, there is nothing that will stop them completely.

Taxes are cheap as is property but that’s about all you get. Amenities can be lacking. Depending on your area of choice, equine vets, tack shops can be few and far between.

We finally gave up on the Deep Southeast and moved to the Deep Southwest.

[MissCoco]

I have no comments on living in the south, but the mention of chiggers gave me flashbacks to childhood (and recent) summers in Southern IN.
They really are just about the itchiest bugs I’ve ever encountered. If you do walk through some long grass it helps to scrub down your legs thoroughly in the shower before bed. Chigger-ex is a menthol product that helps a lot with the itch. The fastest way to get the itching to stop is to paint clear nail polish over the “bites”.
Chiggers don’t actually bite, but burrow into your skin (they stop their upward migrations at elastic because it becomes more difficult for them to crawl upwards at those points), and put off a chemical that provokes an intense histamine reaction. Painting a non-porous material over the itchy spot kills the bug and the itching calms down a lot faster.

[Guilherme]

At the end of the day everyplace is what you make it.

When I got out of the Navy a second time I worked with headhunter in Dallas and my choices for location were Austin, San Antonio, anywhere in the Hill Country, anywhere else in Texas, the Metroplex, or Houston. Guess where I ended up? But when that happened my wife and I said, “time to put PACE*” in operation. One of my associates had lived in Harris County for many years so we sat down with a map and drew time lines around the office were I would be working. I said a 30 min. maximum commute. Based upon what I could afford with my salary that meant three places. We settled on West University Place (a city surrounded by Houston) and moved from a modern, very nice 2400 square foot house in Corpus Christi to a 900 square foot, not well updated, post-War bungalow about 2 blocks from a busy railroad track. The good news? On a hot, Houston afternoon we could comfortably walk to a nice shopping center less than two blocks away where there was major supermarket, a pizza shop, a doughnut shop, and several other small stores. My commute was under 15 min., on average. My wife took a job that had her in a clinic in the bario north of downtown and hers was just over 20 min. We took a situation that could have been very difficult and, with planning, turned it into a very reasonable lifestyle.

I grew up in IL, MI, and WI. I don’t live in any of those places for a long list of reasons! I don’t like humidity, but we get almost 50" of rain here annually. I don’t like bugs and we have about every species of bug in North America in the TN Valley. I like fried chicken, fried okra, fried catfish, fried pies, etc. but not for every meal. Ditto for barbecue. I learned I could shut down Baptist Recruiting Officers by telling them I was a Catholic. If found I could get, and keep, decent equine professional services by paying on time and not writing bad checks. There are many other ways that I had to adapt to local conditions. That’s the way things are when you move to a new area. Because we are close to the Oak Ridge complex we have LOTS of people from other places around here. Those who did as I did generally enjoyed, and continue to enjoy, their time here. Those who constantly whine about what the TN Valley is not don’t.

As a side note, we are also the Land of Half-Backs. Those are folks who retired to FL from the Midwest, found FL to unpleasant, and moved half-way back to their home country. As retirees they can go further south in the winter if they want to but most of the year are within a one day’s drive of their home country. Another Gold Star for the TN Valley, I guess!!!

So, make a plan and work your plan. If the Primary doesn’t work you’ve got three other choices!!!

G.

*A planning strategy that has four components:
Primary
Alternative
Contingent
Emergency

[Sannois]

Nahhh As much as I hate what it is doing right now outside, I will stick to my lovely 4 seasons. Bugs and poisonous snakes and hurricanes , Nope, I love Michigan, well 3 seasons!

[Texarkana]

4 years in south central VA, 11 years in TN, and a year in TX… and I’ve never had a problem with chiggers, and I spend a lot of time outside. My husband got them only once, after we went geocaching through a heavily wooded area. Maybe we’re just lucky? They certainly wouldn’t detract me from moving anywhere.

Ticks were the biggest bug problem I had for the horses and myself, but the “good” news is that Lyme is not nearly as prevalent in TN than it is in New England. Horse flies and mosquitoes seem a whole lot worse back up here in MD. Although we did have those nasty asian tiger mosquitoes in TN that weren’t everywhere, but would seem to swarm at times.

Brown recluses were bad in TN… we lived in several places that were RIDDLED with brown recluses. But, they are really well camouflaged (so you don’t realize quite how many you have… until you do) and rarely give you any problems.

Venomous snakes were more of an issue in TX than VA or TN (I’d call them non-issues in VA and TN). After getting stung by my first scorpion in TX, I decided I can do without them in my life. It also seems like every plant in TX has spikes. You think you are walking through a nice, soft grassy lawn and end up with 42 different kinds of thorns and barbs in you!

But I don’t find any of these things a reason to avoid an area. Quite frankly, I’d rather deal with any and all of the above over constant worries of Lyme.

[SLW]

A niece of mine owns a real estate company that manages properties in NYC & London. On FB last week she shared a property she manages in NYC Upper East side that is for rent. The monthly rental cost on the well appointed 2 BR, 2 bath apartment is $15,000. The same week a friend gave earnest money on a 9 acre parcel one mile from me. She bought it for $90,000 which is high for our area but it’s a sweet piece of land out in our rural area.

I grew up in the upstate of South Carolina (Anderson/Greenville) and lived as a young adult in Mt Pleasant, SC which is beside Charleston. MP was nice but I’m not much of a water person. The upstate with it’s rolling land, 4 seasons (albeit winter is quite short, yeah!!) is my favorite place. I also lived in Charlotte, NC for 18 months and found that city difficult. It grew very fast in the 80’s so the roads could not provide support for the huge population growth due to the banking and computer industry growth. At that time Charlotte was very much White Collar transient, everyone I met was from somewhere else and getting ready to move to somewhere else due to work transfer.

So OP narrow down your area- coastal, midland or way inland. Do you need to be close to a major hospital system or University? Yes bugs are bad in the south but the tradeoff of little to no snow is worth it to many. One inexpensive can of bug spray takes care of the bug problem! I havent found anything I can spray on snow to make it go away.