What about Fursten Look, or any stallion that is WFFS positive? Will that decrease value of foal, even if mare is negative?
Looking for an F stallion to breed my mare. What about Fursten Look? He's positive for WFFS I think.
I don’t know your mare, but I love Floriscount
Evaluate your mare first and choose a stallion that complements her and helps in areas where she is not strong.
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There’s a licensed Floriscount son now in the US.
check out Fortunato H2O
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Question: What are the reasons for an F line stallion? Outcross? Tell us more about your interests in them. I ask, because I am interested, too.
Have you tested your mare for WFFS?
Why would you consider breeding to a WFFS positive stallion? Even with a WFFS negative mare? (ducking and running)
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Why not?
Isn’t it irresponsible to propagate a gene that is detrimental to the breed, specifically, or the species in general when there are alternatives?
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No it is not. Not in the slightest. The only way a foal can ever be effected ever again is if one of the parties doesn’t test. That fact alone makes the breeder irresponsible.
Not irresponsible to breed to a WFFS positive stallion. Right. Got it. Foal can only be affected “ever again” if somebody doesn’t test. Right. Got it.
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Laurie,
What is your view on QH and breeding HYPP N/H ? how is WFFS different?
Yes, it is.
Especially because there are so many alternatives.
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What are you talking about? It takes two carriers to create a positive foal.
but with a carrier parent the foal still has a chance of being a carrier, correct? why breed a potential carrier. would you breed a HYPP N/H QH?
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My opinion is right now, we don’t know enough about WFFS to understand how carriers are impacted. It makes making long term decisions about breeding carriers muddy. There are so many other solid options out there without the carrier status attached to them that it seems a no brainer to try to keep away from the WFFS carrier stallions.
It is irresponsible in the long term to be producing more carriers. If the goal is to gradually eliminate the gene from the breed, you need to gradually increase the % of non-carriers present in the gene-pool. It gets harder and harder to do that, the more horses are involved that are carriers.
In breeds where the population is very small, it can be damaging to lose that genetic diversity - so carriers usually must be bred… but, I don’t think that’s a good argument to make in the case of warmbloods. They are not rigidly closed the way some breed studbooks are, accept new blood provided they meet approval requirements, and in theory it should be less difficult to eliminate that carrier gene provided everyone is on the same page…
But, as you know… getting people to take this disease seriously is kind of difficult. One only needs to look at Schockemohle’s extremely flippant response to this to realize, even the top stud farms are not always infallible.
That doesn’t mean throw away the horse that is a carrier – but of the two, I’d sooner breed a mare carrier than a stallion carrier. A mare is less likely to have the same overwhelming genetic impact, you won’t see six young horses at next year’s stallion testing all by the same mare… Stallions, however…
Think of it like this: no one is out there breeding to the non-spectacular WFFS carriers.
There are tons of people breeding to en vogue WFFS carriers. Breeders seem to have their hands tied in this market: breed to the spectacular WFFS carrier to get a very sellable foal, or, breed to the non-carrier who as not as popular and doesn’t generate as much buzz…
The genetic diversity at the stallion selections, at foal inspections, etc, is already small when it comes to who is presented – to the point where you can have 4-10 horses all by the same sire present in the same year… If they’re all WFFS carriers, well…
Until we know more about how it impacts a horse’s soundness, I’m not so sure I would write it off as not a big deal to be a carrier. The fact that some of these WFFS positive, en vogue stallions are all freaky movers bordering on neurologic, with several of them fizzling out once the real work starts… is that a fluke, or something to take seriously? A few years ago everyone was breeding to Furstenball - couldn’t throw a book without hitting one at an inspection/approval/testing.
Who are they all going to be bred to?
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