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Looking for some different options to get a pinto buckskin/palomino WB... [Update, contract signed!]

it depends on how well the breeding process goes, if you have to board or they’re kept at home, and what the cost is to buy something of an age and quality you’re looking for. When I bred my 1 homebred, a weanling to my standards was $10-12k. Between the stud fee and the pretty smooth breeding process, minimal ultrasounds, took in the first try, no pinching, I think I had about half that into him by the time he hit the ground. But, we have our property, so I didn’t have any extra “foal on board” expenses for boarding. Post-foaling $ - IgG, wellness exam, gelding, first vaccinations etc, added another maybe $2k or so, it’s been a while. So it wasn’t significantly cheaper, and could have been a whole lot more, to breed.

Sometimes you can find yearlings for about the same price, without you having the extra expenses of feed/farrier/vaccines to get another year out of the weanling. It’s the 2-3yo year when the cost really starts going up to buy

There’s a Pinto and Colored WB Facebook group that regularly has foals, in-utero, and youngsters for sale, as well as dilute and/or pinto stallions standing.

I wouldn’t say the colored/dilute WBs are terribly rare, but I would say probably more are overseas than in the US and CN. Still, there are “plenty” of quality ones here in the US, but their price may be a lot more than you’re willing to pay for a foal/yearling.

And many of them have produced ammy-friendly offspring, so quality can still provide for the majority market without needing some of the “flair” that requires a Pro to ride them well into the upper levels.

I didn’t need a FEI prospect either, but that didn’t mean I was willing to sacrifice quality

As I did, I would scour the internet for offspring by that stallion, out of mares similar in build and temperament to the mare in question. It’s not enough for a stallion to reliably put what you want on the ground, full sibs eve, if they’re all out of mares who aren’t like yours at all. In my case, the stallion was very prepotent for producing a build and temperament very much like his own, regardless of the mare being a TB, WB, half draft, QH, QHxDraft, etc, and most offspring were doing what I wanted to do

But if the mare in question has full siblings to what you might want, regardless of her performance or the stallion’s performance, then that is a much less risky endeavor.

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I am a big fan of Connemara blood for jumpers (I have two Conn x TB crosses).

There are lots of dun (genetically buckskin) Connemaras, so they have the dilute gene. But there are not many chestnuts, so not many palominos (though quite a few palomino crossbreds).

There are no paints (pintos) in the Connemara breed, so that would have to come from the other side of the cross. You won’t get the paint from a TB either.

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I think that is because there are fewer breeding stallions than breeding mares, so, unless it is a true “Blue Hen Mare” people are more likely to have heard of (which is what counts for advertising) the damsire than the dam.

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I’d buy a foal already on the ground, no doubt. Breeding can be a crap shoot and horribly expensive should anything go wrong. It’s not the way to go if you are pursuing it just to cut costs. Also, there are few homozygous WB horses with the characteristics you are looking for, so for most crosses, there would not be a guarantee for color. The mares that actually are homozygous for color are rarely for sale. You would need to purchase in utero more than likely, and even then most color breeders only offer colt options.

If you’d be willing to import, though she recently passed away, Gwendolyn Gregorio had a successful colored WB breeding program with many dilutes/palomino WBs. I’m not sure how they are managing her estate but you could reach out.

Another breeder that comes to mind is Carolyn Reed of Reed Hill Farm in TN. They have some TBs and TB crosses in the colors you are interested in, I don’t believe she offers in utero. Hunter types. She’s on FB.

If you are looking for some extremely nice WB mares available open for a custom foal option, I just saw that Ashlie Miller Racette is offering some of her mares. You can find her on FB and match a mare with a homozygous color producing stallion.

Another person that comes to mind is Lisha Marshall with Broad Hill Run farm. She has a homozygous pinto stallion, not a dilute/palomino, however. But certainly nice WB lines geared for jumper types - she may have some on the ground for sale.

Someone mentioned Crème de La Crème… nice US hunter stallion but I’m pretty sure he is not homozygous.

Off the top of my head, Avalon farms has some homozygous dilute stallion options. May have some in utero or on the ground options.

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How many full siblings are there to evaluate? Are they old enough to be competing over fences? Have they ALL demonstrated the soundness, mental attitude, trainabilty, movement, jumping talent , etc. that you are looking for?

Personally I don’t put a lot of faith in full siblings. My sister and I had a pair of full sibling TBs, a mare and a gelding… They looked very similar, bright chestnut, same conformation strength and weaknesses. But there mental attitude was completely different.

The gelding REALLY wanted to please. But when stressed or nervous his response was to plant his feet and refuse to move. He wasn’t very athletic, and he never got above Novice (2’11"), and spent most of his career taking relatively inexperienced riders around at Beginner Novice.

The mare had absolutely no desire to please, unless what you wanted was something she already wanted. When stressed or nervous her response was to bolt or fight. But once she figured it out she was a very bold jumper, and competed successfully at Prelim (3’7").

So I would make sure you have a big enough sample size of full siblings, and that you would be happy with ANY of them.

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Frame Overo, and various White mutations, exist in TBs, and some of those lines are pretty good at producing splashy color. That’s not “Paint”, which is a registry/breed which does include TBs (and Paints, and QHs), but it is Pinto which is really what you mean in this context

You can 100% get a Paint (APHA) with a TB parent, as long as that TB is (also) registered APHA, and the other parent is a QH or Paint who is APHA–registered

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I don’t have any suggestions but I fully support you chasing this dream. Performance and sound mind are important, but I rank beauty pretty high too. I love looking out the window and seeing the way the sun illuminates my palomino’s golden coat. Long after his performance days have ended, I still get excited about his beauty every time I see him. Although, when I started searching for a horse 24 years ago, I thought I wanted a bay :woman_shrugging:.

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Sadly, no farm to keep the baby. However, most programs I’m looking into are all-inclusive - a super reasonable price that includes everything from the initial deposit to when they’re born, then typical vet/registration/etc type of bills until weaned. Plus the usual live foal guarantee, with any money already paid being put towards a future breeding (or another breeding that wasn’t sold). That might be why I feel pretty safe doing something like this! I’ve already brainstormed with my trainer/gotten as many ducks in a row regarding what happens after the foal is weaned. None of this is to say that there aren’t emotional risks though!

Thank you so much for that FB page - so much eye candy!! There are SO many more options in the EU than over here. But importing a baby seems like possibly one of the riskiest things I could do, lol.

That’s a great recommendation on looking at every foal. I scoured for full siblings and took a look at some half siblings, but I’m afraid I might not be knowledgeable enough to see what comes from the stallion vs the mare… although maybe I can pick up on some patterns from looking at a whole bunch.

Thank you so much for all of those suggestions!!

I’m not necessarily looking to cut costs; the payment plan is a nice aside. In-utero is exactly what I’m looking for mostly as an experience. Not going to have any human kids of my own (by choice!), but this is something I’d like to do at least once.

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I’ve found about 5 on my own but I’ll certainly ask the breeder as well. Only two are old enough to be competing over fences but I can’t find anything about one of them after being sold from the breeder - guessing a name change. The other one is well documented and loved! I suppose I feel good about the particular stallion/cross as people who have the younger full siblings or half siblings (on the stallion’s side) are quite outspoken about how good theirs are.
Certainly excellent advice though - thank you!!

Wish I could like this a million times, thank you! What’s life without experiencing some risk in order to possibly do something you never thought you’d be in the position to do? Might as well make it pretty, too! :joy:
I really appreciate the advice given, though. If I go through with it, it won’t be a hasty decision, that’s for sure.

You’re welcome. Breeding is risky but to me, breeding and raising foals is one of the most gratifying things in the world. There are some really nice in utero options in the US, best time is to jump on them now while they are available to customize before breeding season. Make sure you get a really good contract - worth having a lawyer look it over. I’d also get insurance on the foal immediately. Reach out to breeders with mares available, most know their options for colored stallions in the US. Europe has more colored WB stallions available for mares if you and the breeder are willing to import frozen. Breed the best you can. I hope you get your unicorn.

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Have a look at Stallion AI Services (http://www stallions.co.uk) if only for entertainment purposes. Some 800 top horses across multiple breeds and disciplines, it is a smorgasbord of very pretty animals and I waste too much time looking. It is possible to search the stallion list by colour too and there are several dilutes of various breeds. The company does export frozen to the USA. Tullis Matson, the owner, now does seman collection on endangered wildlife, such as collecting from elephants in the African bush.

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Is Carolyn Reed still breeding? She liquidated a lot of horses last year, including her APHA stallion. I only know that because the stallion ended up with an Arabian breeder and I was curious about his history, so I’m not at all claiming to be fully in the loop.

One thing I would double down on with the contract is - what is considered a normal expense of mare AND foal care, for the mare during pregnancy (to help ensure you actually get a foal), and right after foaling, and what would be considered extraordinary that you should be advised of before the MO has work done that costs $$, and a plan in case you can’t be reached and care is critical. Who’s responsible for mare emergencies while the foal is nursing? Just make sure every expense category is spelled out in the contract

so much!

Yes, plenty more over there, but you’d also be surprised how many of them can ship semen to the US

You’re looking less at who’s contributing what, and more at how (dis)similar the foals are out of mares of varying types. Some mares stamp their foals, especially mares from long mare lines of quality. Many stallions stamp their foals, a good trait to have

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OP, I just saw this ad and thought of this thread:

No affiliation or experience with the seller.

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He’s so cute! :heart_eyes: Just started chatting with her. Thanks so much for the link!

Just re the color: is this anything like what you’re looking for?

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https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1853960908180808&type=3

http://www.blazingcoloursfarm.com/mircedes.html

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Might be out of budget or too far from you, but check out this nice, young mare that seems to fit your criteria.

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