Her mother is the exact same shade of bay, down to similar shading on the legs, and her father was grey, nearly white at age 4. She’s a Connemara.
picture with fairly clear leg view
It’s not easy to see in the picture, but she has significant leg feathering that is blond in her winter coat.
Riddlemethis, you have a private message.
Man, this thread went from nothing to taking off after I wasn’t on! 
DMK, I highly doubt the JC would register anything as wild bay 
so going by their “bay” description doesn’t help unfortunately.
As RMT indicated, we’re interested in this because if 2 normal bay parents (obviously normal bay, not potentially brown of any shade) produce a wild bay foal (and you cannot tell this by the foal coat because they all have black at most up to the fetlocks) then normal bay is dominant over wild bay which is a theory that RMT and I (and some others) believe, but others don’t.
I don’t have time right now to check out all the pictures, but will later for sure!
gotcha… I thought you were exploring the ch/bay parents as opposed to specific types of 2 bay parents.
LOL, that just seems to be a fairly common pattern we are running into, which raises questions I’m not even sure of yet :lol:
But wild bay from normal bay and black would prove the point as well - since the black is aa, if the bay provides At to produce a wild bay, then we would know that he was AAt with A dominating and making him normal bay.
Sooooo, can the commercial DNA labs now test for the 3 kinds of Agouti? There didn’t used to be a way to tell the brown genotype.
No 
Just normal bay (A) and there is a test for brown (A+) that should be available commercially soon.
I know one wild bay personally, with the blond feathers and high lights in the mane. He is a morgan, out of a chestnut mare and by [SIZE=3][SIZE=3]Equinox Beaubrook. Stud is bay, dam is flaxen chestnut.
See pictures here (towards the bottom) http://www.morgancolors.com/basecolors.htm
Does the blond come out of having one chestnut parent?
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
My mare has blonde feathers in the winter as well, up to her girth area.
Strangely, penthilisea, my mar’s sire is a flaxen chestnut out of a golden bay mare.
Who knows what was lurking under the grey coat of my mare’s granddam, but that grandsire was a definite dark bay before he turned grey. I will have to see if I can figure out if there was wild bay expressed in that mare line before my mare’s dam.
You’re a wee bit confused there. The wild bay allele was called A+, and the seal brown one is “At”. The whole wild bay thing is still just a theory. Some think it’s just a lighter shade of bay (“A”), and not a separate gene at all. No one really knows yet. But, there is now a test for seal brown:
http://www.petdnaservicesaz.com/Equine.html
Note that it is a separate test from the other agouti test that has been around awhile (which looks to see how many “a” alleles are present). So if you had no idea what agouti genes your horse had, you would first need to do the original agouti test, and then depending on the results, if brown was still a possibility, you would do the second test (to see if there was any “At” alleles).
Welcome!
3 months is hard to tell color because there’s bleaching, there’s the first new coat coming in, etc.
In this case, there are some things we know. A brown parent who is Aa (and I’d expect that to be the darker brown, as your mare is) and a black parent aa, can’t produce bay. Bay is dominant over brown, and despite the brown test having been pulled due to some issues, to my knowledge there hasn’t been any reported bay foal out of 2 browns, or a brown and a black, only browns (if they weren’t chestnut).
As for the wild type - if we even assumed yours was bay (he can’t be anything but Aa, but he’s going to be darker brown like his dam), then it can take bays several years to fully develop the black in the points. And, in the case here, the picture show he’s got black pigment high up in his hock and knee area.
He’s shedding like a very normal brown/bay foal.
Worth pointing out on this thread that the “brown” test was debunked and ended up being little more than a flat out scam… Agouti has been fully mapped and the only options there are A or a. “At” doesn’t exist. Whatever causes brown, is not at agouti but is thought to possibly be linked (in much the same way KIT is linked to Extension, etc).
I’ve also seen examples of a seal brown and black pairing producing normal bay. It is rare but has happened, which actually further supports the idea that it is something linked to agouti, as in those cases rare linkage breaks can happen.
This colt even at his young age has very clear black up to his knees and hocks. He is not wild bay.
Well, all this is sort of a moot point right now given the situation with the brown test.
Assuming the horse on the left is the offspring of the one on the right, I’d probably call that one a bay, but possibly a more maximal expression of a wild bay, given how low the solidness of the hind black is, and how “splotchy” the black of the front legs are, particularly in that full Summer (I assume) coat. This is getting into really gray area as to what might phenotypically be called bay or wild bay.
The horse on the right is what I’d call brown, but if that’s a late Summer/early Fall coloring, with the Winter coat having emerged even if not fully in (I’m looking at what seems like some color starting to change in the trees), then it’s also sketchy as to whether it’s bay or brown phenotype.
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