Losing Marbles around Other Horses

So update on Max… I have brought all of the cards to the table, I think. Next week I am scoping him for ulcers. He has always swished his tail quite a bit and likes to suck behind the leg. I figure it’s worth a shot and the odds are that we will find something.

I spoke with the “cowboy” on the phone. He essentially told me that his plan would be to assess Max/his responsiveness on the lunge and groundwork before anything under saddle so he actually agreed to come meet me today on Max’s turf and in familiar surroundings.

When we started, i informed him that I usually only lunge in full tack and with a bridle, as Max is big and can be disrespectful (he is far too big and has successfully pulled me when I use only a halter). I cautioned the man to close the arena gate, to which he laughed. Well, it took all of ten seconds for him to say he had seen enough. He proceeded to have him canter on the lunge and every time Max pulled back or fussed, he yanked on the rope w/ increasing energy until he got a positive response. Had him go back and forth and he worked up a decent lather. I was told it was better to have him run around at a canter than to trot, as Max had TONS of energy. Eventually he had me try, and we progressed to flicking the end of the whip over his back and rubbing it back and forth as he trotted/cantered to desensitize him.

The lunge circle was let out wider and wider to test his degree of responsiveness. We had to bring him back in a few times. Once he was properly in tune, i ended up hopping on. Focus was on more energy, but also playing enough with contact to have his head down on the vertical and ears focused. A horse rode by and we did NOT get the bolting reaction.

As it was explained to me, he was chock full of energy and a bit of obstinance…the attitude of “if i put up a fight, I bet you won’t make me work.” When we first mounted he did NOT want to respond to my leg. I was told to use the whip and I said, “you’ll see, he is going to pop.” He DID, but then we popped forward and Max quickly realized that shenanigans did not equate to slowing down.

I was told to lunge him before work until it “wasn’t needed any longer” and to do so with more horses as we got better. Was also told to focus on FORWARD energy then circles and serpentines or leg yields if needed, but that focus on contact was the easiest and lightest way to ask for attention (not allowing his head to be perched in which he would NOT be paying attention).

Overall great experience. If nothing else, it got my confidence back because I had guidance rather than sheer hope that i was handling the situation. I am one to laugh at Max and make him work/push him through his quirks lightheartedly and I realized how brave I had been in the past. I lost that for a bit, and I think he could sense this. I’m hoping to be a confident leader once more :slight_smile:

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Very good! That’s exactly the way I went and it gave great results. I believe you found a very good trainer

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:slight_smile:

Glad you’re back on track!

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One more idea for you, that isn’t a whole training program, but maybe a go-to when a bit more Max shows up than needed …

Go a small distance AWAY from the horse-crowd and work work work. Big & small circles, at the trot or canter (no walk or rest), until he’s showing he’d like a bit of a break. (Mental maybe rather than physical.)

Then go CLOSE TO the horse crowd to walk on as long a rein as possible, and rest. No closer than he can be calm, but as close as possible with calm. Spend several minutes, as long as he will be calm, doing this.

Recycle & repeat.

The idea is to associate the ‘thing’ (horse-crowd or scary item or whatever) with REST and relaxation.

Horses tend to pick up the association quickly. But it may need to be repeated for many rides before it settles in as a new habit. Obviously habits of excitement are tough to work with for an andrenaline-rich excitable horse, but a horse can improve.

Sounds like you are on the right track … good luck for a long and happy future for you and Max!

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I have a TWH who, if allowed to perch his head, will drain all the sense out of his noggin and it pools on the floor :wink:
If I require his nose to be at or below the point of his shoulder, his wee thimble full of sense stays upright between his furry ears.

Glad you got a plan together!

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I think my OTTB has the same thing going on as your TWH …

The higher his head is, the more he is paying attention to every. single. thing. in a quarter-mile radius than he is to the ride. And a lot of it is alarming. According to him. The Zombies Are Coming.

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The inside ear should be on you. The outside ear should flick around but should also come back to you.

2 ears forward. Think of them as two fingers saying up you.

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I completely agree with all of this. I’d you want to take it back to something even more elementary, hang out in the middle of the ring at your boarding barn while horses are being ridden, lessons are happening, etc. He’s already told you he has a problem, break things down into easy nuggets he can achieve and get praised for and move up from there. It may mean starting in an empty ring for a few days, adding 1 rider, etc., but always try to be in a situation that you can control (which requires the cooperation of barn mates).

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That is great! :grin:

I think of them as Pitchfork Ears. No Pitchfork Ears for more than a second or two. A horse’s attention is wherever his ears are pointing. If he has them in Pitchfork position, you might as well be at home, because he’s busy forgetting about you anyway.

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Not necessarily true. Frequently false. The rider needs to read the horse’s whole body, not just the ears.

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This is a saying for dressage horses. Both ears straight forward and tense.

Not like when trail riding and the ears are relaxed and forward.

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So you’re agreeing that the rider needs to read the whole horse?

I am saying it is a saying and when you look at a saying it can mean a full sheet of paper or more to look at all of its meanings. It means more than what you see written and comes from experienced people who made the saying.

Like if you read the saying it is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday. It does not mean ride 5 minutes a day. You look further for the real meaning.

Another saying in dressage is the inside ear belongs to you. The outside ear can flick around, but should also come back to you.

If you have a dressage horse who is supposed to be circling and instead their is counter bending, head up and ears forward this can happen before a shy. Their attention is not on you.

Trail riding my dressage horse has is ears forward if he is alone or in front. This is not a warning.

One time when I had someone else riding, Monition Boy, who was the fastest horse I have ever owned. We started galloping. Pepper’s ears were back. Moby started to accelerate into the distance. Pepper slowed a little, his head went up, his ears went forward as he watched in wonderment. Then his ears went back and he galloped as fast as he ever could, he came back to a slower gallop with his head up and his ears forward and watched him go out of sight. His ears went right back and he started to gallop again.

I just laughed and stroked his neck and told him not to bother trying. He would never catch him. In that case his ears showed his concentration but it was not going to end in the rider in trouble.

:rofl: That has got to be the longest “I don’t actually want to agree, but yes” I’ve seen! Well done! :rofl:

LOL Finally a day off. I haven’t made it out of bed yet.

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Very common OTTB behaviour.

Lots of time just spent standing in arena whilst other horses work around him.
Lots of being passed by oncoming horses while you’re working at the WALK. Praise him as they go past.
Work up to lateral movements at walk while another horse is oncoming …, getting him to focus on you. Reward him.

Lots of slow boring stuff but it will work.

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