Losing stirrups after landing a jump / help with jumping position

[HidingInShadow]

Disclaimer: I am working with a trainer already but with one horse sent out for training I can only afford 1-2 lessons a month right now.

I’ve noticed that I’m constantly losing my stirrups after landing a jump, and my trainer has pointed out that it’s because I’m pivoting/gripping with my knees.

I feel like I really struggling getting over fences any other way because I’m very tall (6’1) and there’s not enough horse to wrap myself around. If I manage to stay back and not pivot, I catch my horse in the mouth because I’m too far behind the motion.

When I can afford lessons, my trainer is lunging me with no stirrups and/or no hands, but at once and twice a month I know I need to do more.

What are some exercises I can do on my own to help myself?

Editing to add- my horse is NOT the point and shoot type so I can’t set up a chute and feel confident riding through it no hands/no stirrups without my trainer present.

[M_O_Connor]

Leg position and balance are the obvious answer, but very often it’s the overlooked details that are actually at fault.

Check your gear: if the treads on your boots and/or your stirrup pads are worn, the stirrups will not stay on your feet. What is the condition of your saddle and stirrup leathers, and the the inside of your boots/half chaps…if the leather is dry and glossy, your leg will slip.

Now is a good time of year to make sure your treads/pads are fresh and new, and that your saddle is oiled/conditioned and “tacky” feeling. Likewise, clean and well conditioned boots will give your leg a ‘grippy’ feeling when it comes into contact with the tack/horse.

Can a good rider with established position and experience overcome these shortfalls?

Yes, but the best riders will have taken care of these items and checked them off the to-do list, and will have a head start on good balance and security before they even leave the barn.

[kashmere]

Sounds like you may be jumping too high relative to the strength of your position, currently. If I were you (or if you were my student), I would suggest:

• spending a LOT of time in two-point at the trot and canter, focusing on sinking weight into your heel. A good exercise to help this is putting a sponge between your knee and the saddle - it gives you a nice visual as to how much you are gripping.

• Evaluate your leg position overall. Do you sit in a chair seat? I am 6’0 and ALL leg, and I know the struggle of figuring out what to do with all that limb. Do you tend to rotate out at the hip and sit with the back of your thigh against the saddle? This will not be secure over fences, and often leads to the pivot/grip scenario.

• Assess your jumping stirrup length. If they’re too long, it’s difficult to find security in two-point and over fences. You want a 90 degree angle behind your knee when you’re out of the saddle, nothing more open than that.

• Take it back to basics o/f. Trot poles and canter poles, low x-rails, low grids. If you’re pivoting badly enough that you’re losing stirrups, you’re probably jumping ahead as well. Practice waiting, practice riding in a full seat to the fence. Let your horse jump the jump.

• If you feel like you’re over-correcting and dropping back/ getting your horse in the mouth, make sure you’re using a proper crest release (not floating at the top of the mane, but a few inches down, pressing into the crest) and use a neck strap to help support and balance.

This really sounds like a balance/strength issue with your position. Spend time on the flat without stirrups at all three gaits getting your seat connected to your horse. Spend time standing in the stirrups. Trot and canter sets in two-point with that sponge between your knee and the saddle. Keep the fences low until you can put your position together.

[Synthesis]

Getting strengthening up your two point is probably the biggest key. My current tool is one of those 0-5k running programs in my smartphone. Press go. When the voice says “Start running”, I get in 2 pt at the trot and stay there until the voice says “Walk”. Repeat until the running program is over. Increment along with the running schedule. (Use a neck strap, don’t lean on the neck)

I cannot emphasize how much this method sucks :ambivalence:
but it removes the “I must have been up here for 1-2-3 minutes” We can lie to ourselves but not to the timer :no:

PS: In my experience, concentrating on getting the achilles tendon in contact with the horse’s side and keeping it there is key. This actually takes your knee off the saddle slightly. Pinch with knee = lower leg pulled off horse = tip and go splat. But I am decidedly NOT 6’ tall. so I need to maximize my below the knee contact area. So YMMV

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=M. O’Connor;8598328]
Leg position and balance are the obvious answer, but very often it’s the overlooked details that are actually at fault.

Check your gear: if the treads on your boots and/or your stirrup pads are worn, the stirrups will not stay on your feet. What is the condition of your saddle and stirrup leathers, and the the inside of your boots/half chaps…if the leather is dry and glossy, your leg will slip.

Now is a good time of year to make sure your treads/pads are fresh and new, and that your saddle is oiled/conditioned and “tacky” feeling. Likewise, clean and well conditioned boots will give your leg a ‘grippy’ feeling when it comes into contact with the tack/horse.

Can a good rider with established position and experience overcome these shortfalls?

Yes, but the best riders will have taken care of these items and checked them off the to-do list, and will have a head start on good balance and security before they even leave the barn.[/QUOTE]

Tread on stirrups pads and boots? Really? People used to ride ALL.THE.TIME. without stirrups pads and didn’t have this issue. Old boot soles were slick in comparison to what is seen these days. I just can’t see this being anything but an excuse. Keeping your stirrups isn’t about treads on your boots and stirrups pads, it’s about correct distribution of weight through the leg.

OP, your trainer is right, you are most likely gripping with your knees and pivoting over them. You need the weight distribution correct through your leg and you should eliminate this problem (although there are plenty of really good riders that pivot over their knees and don’t lose their stirrups. Perhaps they have very grippy stirrups pads. )

Lots of time in two point at the walk and trot, really letting your weight go down into your heels should help.

[FancyIllusions]

What size jumps are you doing? I find it hard to imagine losing your stirrups below 3ft, but above that I could see how the motion bounces you out of the stirrups if you’re gripping with your knees.

Perhaps next lesson you could have your instructor properly set up a grid with several bounces, and then you leave the grid exactly as it was to practice with until your next lesson.

And, of course, a lot of improving your two point as has been mentioned above.

[M_O_Connor]

[QUOTE=RugBug;8598446]
Tread on stirrups pads and boots? Really? People used to ride ALL.THE.TIME. without stirrups pads and didn’t have this issue. Old boot soles were slick in comparison to what is seen these days. I just can’t see this being anything but an excuse. Keeping your stirrups isn’t about treads on your boots and stirrups pads, it’s about correct distribution of weight through the leg.

OP, your trainer is right, you are most likely gripping with your knees and pivoting over them. You need the weight distribution correct through your leg and you should eliminate this problem (although there are plenty of really good riders that pivot over their knees and don’t lose their stirrups. Perhaps they have very grippy stirrups pads. )

Lots of time in two point at the walk and trot, really letting your weight go down into your heels should help.[/QUOTE]

So…are you saying, that ‘leg position and balance are the obvious answer?’ That was my FIRST guess.

IIRC, yes people did ride without stirrup pads, and in those days drove their feet home to keep the irons from falling off!

[jetsmom]

Transitions while staying in 2 point the whole time, and not using neck or reins to balance.
Also try riding in a wider twist saddle. A too narrow twist will drop away from your inner thighs and force you to pinch with your lnees. If anyone has an Antares at your barn that fits, try it. Their regular twists are wider than many beval, or county saddles.

[Risuena]

In addition to the above: the 3-up, 2-down exercise. At the trot, 2 point for 3 trot steps, sitting trot for 2, back up for 3 beats, down for 2, etc. If your lower leg isn’t stable you’ll fall forward on the next or back down in the saddle in the up phase. But be sure not to pinch with your knees and hold yourself up with them - pay attention to that or get a ground person.

[pony_grandma]

Rubberbands.

just joking, that’s what the parents did in 4H to the kids that were contesting.

[SillyHorse]

In addition to all the very good strengthening and balance exercises suggested above, visualize landing after the jump heels first. That will help you keep your heels down and your leg underneath you.

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=M. O’Connor;8599124]
So…are you saying, that ‘leg position and balance are the obvious answer?’ That was my FIRST guess.

IIRC, yes people did ride without stirrup pads, and in those days drove their feet home to keep the irons from falling off![/QUOTE]

WE absolutely did not ride with our foot shoved “home”. But neither did we grip with our knees.

[SillyHorse]

Also, be sure your stirrups are not too long. The bottom of the iron should hit just above your ankle bone.

[BITSA]

Grab made 2/3 strides out so you don’t catch your horse in the mouth. Then you can think heels down the whole time and just focus on them sinking every step. Think land in your heels (Jeff Cook told me that during a clinic). It’s like imagining the back of your heel should be the first thing that lands (yes, thats an exaggeration but it helped me think of it). There’s Bernie Traurig video on the flat that helped me visualize the sinking heel. I’ll see if I can find it. Like others have said make sure your stirrups are short enough, otherwise you’re “looking for your irons” over the fence and won’t have that base of support.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMSxqm_GKYU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssFCklAH8co

[HidingInShadow]

Thank you everyone for the helpful advice. If anyone has any more tips, I would love to hear them. I’ve raised my stirrups up a hole, and I tried the grabbing mane which helped but I still feel I’m hitting her in the mouth because she’ll toss her head upon landing (which she only does with me, not my trainer).
Doing lots of two-point work in the meantime. I love that couch to 5k two point idea.

[RugBug]

@HidingInShadow;8607421

I tried the grabbing mane which helped but I still feel I’m hitting her in the mouth because she’ll toss her head upon landing (which she only does with me, not my trainer).

Are you reaching forward when you are grabbing mane? You should be doing a long crest release for now.

Also, should could be throwing her head up to protect her back. If she is used to you hitting her in the back when she jumps, it will cause her to hollow and drop away from that…and the head will raise.

I would investigate both of those things as causes for the head tossing. It may take her some time to start trusting you…so keep practicing and once she trusts that you won’t hit her in the mouth or back, you will probably find that she will stop tossing her head.

[Synthesis]

Just a thought, but I vastly prefer a neck strap (spare stirrup leather) to grabbing mane. I find it too easy to miss, slip or grab mane and have my hands above the neck instead of on the neck.

With a neck strap, I have a consistent target for my hands. Once straight to the fence, reach forward and fold fingers over the neckstrap. Let slip from the neckstrap on landing and continue on.

Its more of an eventer technique than H/J but if eventers can go around Olympic courses with them then who am I to think I’m too good for one?

[Quinn]

Read this quote a few years ago and as simple as it is, it’s helped me tremendously. “Land in your heels.”

[Jacquee3]

Maybe it’s not your leg…

Disclaimer: this might be an unpopular opinion, but here I go.

I hear you loud and clear. I’m also a very tall rider (6’) with VERY long legs (36" inseam). All of the above suggestions are good, but I have a slightly different take on the issue.

First, make sure your saddle is big enough for you. For me, upgrading to saddle with extra long flaps and 2x forward made a HUGE difference.

And now the less popular perspective. If you are knee pinching, I’m not sure that extra two point is going to do a lot for you without your trainer there to ensure you are doing it correctly. It is indeed possible to knee pinch at the two point.

What changed my life: After 18 years of riding, I switched from hunters/eq to jumpers, and my trainer had a more European/Latin American approach. He completely changed my position. I went from riding mostly in a half seat at the canter to sitting my butt in the saddle. Every stride. God it was hard.

Before this, I seriously could ride ALL DAY LONG in the two point with a rock solid leg. But when it came to the jumps, I was always landing off balance. And it actually wasn’t my leg – it was my upper body.

So that could be the issue. With us tall people, even the slightest tilt of your body can throw you completely off balance on the other side of the jump. (Ask your trainer if you have ever thrown your body in an effort to not hit your horse in the mouth?)

And here’s the funny thing. Once I stopped riding in a half seat, my entire position changed, and I started getting all these compliments about my equitation (on the flat and over fences). My hands (and all my aids) became more independent. Everything came together. And overall, I became a softer, more effective rider. Since I had more control over my upper body at the fences, everything was great on the landing side. Within a matter of months, my trainer took me from thinking that 3’ was big to schooling 1m40 and thinking “weeeeeeeeeeeeee” that was fun!

Then things changed last year. I moved, took a lower paying job, and couldn’t afford to lease or show. I had to switch to new trainers, and finally found some who have the same philosophy as my former trainer. Sadly, now I’m only been able to ride a couple times a month. I was terrified I’d regress.

Then another amazing thing happened. My trainer went to Ocala, and arranged for me to take dressage lessons with a trainer who understands that my focus is jumpers. I love to jump. I’ll always love to jump. But this has been the BEST thing that has ever happened to me. The dressage work built on the progress I had already made. My leg is so much stronger. My seat is so much better. My aids? So much more independent. I recently popped over some fences for the first time in several months and it felt amazing. I could absolutely tell the difference.

I’ve never ridden better. And it was all my upper body, not my leg.

Oh! One more tip. See if someone can video your jumps. Watch them over and over, and play “jumping clinic” while you critique yourself. You’ll learn so much.

Note: I don’t want this to become a debate on the merits of the forward riding system. etc. That’s been done over and over and these forums. I just wanted to share my experience and give you an alternative perspective to think about.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=Jacquee3;8611236]

Note: I don’t want this to become a debate on the merits of the forward riding system. etc. That’s been done over and over and these forums. I just wanted to share my experience and give you an alternative perspective to think about.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I’m going to go there. If you are correctly using the Forward Riding System, you should have independent seat, hands, and legs. IMO, it doesn’t sound like the system was at fault but perhaps your former instruction?

(FWIW: I think it’s getting more and more difficult to find someone that really develops riders in HSE or Forward Riding…for a lot of reasons, some of which include lack/cost of resources (outside courses with jumps going downhill will help riders develop a good base), liability (sending a rider through a gymnastic with no hands will certainly develop a good base…but not too many are keen on taking on that liability if something goes wrong), etc.