Losing topline?

[gertie06]

My 14 year old Holsteiner gelding has started losing his topline musculature. He gets worked 4x/week, mostly on the flat. He is asked to lift/use his back, but I think the issue is that he’s a VERY quiet sort and would really rather not go forward. He’s happy to kinda plod around. Without really pushing from behind, he’s probably not truly engaging his back.

That said, I wonder if there are other variables at play. He’s turned out all night in a big paddock, so turnout is sufficient. He eats a great diet. His stall is a standard size (not too small for him). I had the saddle fitter come. She did not express concern, but helped me pad the saddle more correctly for his current build. His weight is good (well, maybe a little fat), his coat is shiny, and his feet are good.

We’ve had chiro/body work and every time they say he’s generally fit, balanced, and comfortable. They just said to include hills and backing in our routine (which I do). But still, I’m a little perturbed by this loss of topline. Why is this happening now? Is it a function of age? 14 isn’t really that old. Should I be concerned? What can I do to help strengthen his back?

[ClassyJumper]

My 18 y/o appendix started having this issue this year. He is turned out on a hilly pasture but since I got a new horse he seems to spend more time hanging by the fence than moving around. I dont know the answer but i have found riding for a shorter amount of time but truly working correctly and making him use his back the whole time including walking and warm up seems to be helping.

[caliQV]

My gelding is older with sort of chronic long/weak back issues. I generally do a lot to support his topline – making sure he’s always using himself correctly under saddle, even at the walk on the buckle/on trail rides/etc (big swinging steps, marching along, not meandering aimlessly); lunging a couple times a week in a Pessoa rig; making sure he has adequate protein in his diet. There are belly lift stretch-type things you can do too – I’m not great at remembering to do them but a lot of people swear by them for topline development. It all helps but for him it’s a bit conformational so we always have this struggle.

However, unexplained muscle atrophy can also be a symptom of a few different medical things. Depending on where you are in the country and what type of grass is in his turnout, maybe supplementing with vitamin E would help? You can get a serum test done by the vet before starting him on it. I think there’s a few other things like maybe Cushing’s or Lyme disease (also geographically dependent). A few years ago when my gelding rapidly lost topline over the course of just a few weeks, we did a Lyme test and he ended up on IV antibiotics. It helped a lot. But yeah if it’s rapid and you can’t find any other reasonable explanations, I’d do some investigating with your vet just to be sure.

[gertie06]

@caliQV

My gelding is older with sort of chronic long/weak back issues. I generally do a lot to support his topline – making sure he’s always using himself correctly under saddle, even at the walk on the buckle/on trail rides/etc (big swinging steps, marching along, not meandering aimlessly); lunging a couple times a week in a Pessoa rig; making sure he has adequate protein in his diet. There are belly lift stretch-type things you can do too – I’m not great at remembering to do them but a lot of people swear by them for topline development. It all helps but for him it’s a bit conformational so we always have this struggle.

However, unexplained muscle atrophy can also be a symptom of a few different medical things. Depending on where you are in the country and what type of grass is in his turnout, maybe supplementing with vitamin E would help? You can get a serum test done by the vet before starting him on it. I think there’s a few other things like maybe Cushing’s or Lyme disease (also geographically dependent). A few years ago when my gelding rapidly lost topline over the course of just a few weeks, we did a Lyme test and he ended up on IV antibiotics. It helped a lot. But yeah if it’s rapid and you can’t find any other reasonable explanations, I’d do some investigating with your vet just to be sure.

Thanks, caliQV. It hasn’t been rapid. Just a slow, slight atrophy.

[beowulf]

Any soundness issues in the past year or so? How are his feet and teeth?

What’s his diet? Some horses need more than others; could be a matter of insufficient protein, could be he needs more fat too… Could be he is not masticating or digesting properly… check teeth for EORTH or any unusual dentition; hooks, lost teeth, etc. Poor dentition is a common culprit in loss of condition, as are ulcers - and sometimes the two are related, because the horse can’t chew properly, leading to too coarse feedstuff in the stomach, causing irritation and/or abrasions in stomach and hindgut…

Do you have a picture of him, conformation wise?

14 is the age where subtle conformational issues might come to the surface in previously asymptomatic horses; anything from being too straight behind, to cervical arthritis or KS, will start to be much more obvious as the natural wear and tear of living starts to compound these issues.

Horses (in good management) can lose topline for a number of reasons, but generally I find it is usually either related to a soundness issue somewhere and they are compensating, therefore no longer using themselves correctly, or there is a diet deficit.

Maybe he is not moving around much at night, or is staying in one place due to bugs? I’ll always push for as much turnout as possible - and no, just night turnout is not sufficient for any horse… they deal with it, but it is not ideal. 24/7 turnout is best, but I understand not everyone lives in an area where it is feasible.

I would not rule out Lyme, as another poster said. It can have some varying symptoms. The more horses I see with the disease the more I realize it really depends on horse to horse and not all demonstrate the “usual” lyme symptoms. For some, it’s a matter of loss in topline, others a decrease in performance, or change in personality.

[gertie06]

Beowulf, that’s the odd thing, his condition remains excellent. His feet, teeth, and coat are all good. He’s totally sound. He’s bright eyed and positive. He gets a little stocked up behind after jumping, but not much (nothing standing wraps don’t solve). I would say his energy level is sometimes a bit low, but that seems to be directly related to the amount of turnout he gets. He’s currently out from 4pm to 9am, which is more turnout than he has ever had in his life.

I looked up Lyme, but he’s not displaying any of those symptoms.

Let me try and dig up a conformation photo.

[beowulf]

Right - don’t rule out the Lyme just because you don’t see symptoms usual with the disease. I’ve dealt with it in probably… fifty horses now - as a BM, barn staffer, and in my own personal horses. I have more experience with it than I ever wanted… and not all of them showed the same symptoms.

Some of them coming back high/positive genuinely surprised me, like my own TB – whose only symptom was that he was a bit more sharp around strangers, and lost his lush tail. I had credited it to a change in his situation as he was out on lease and not being worked by me… He did not display any of the usual symptoms, and had a wildly high titer. The second day on treatment he went back to being completely normal – his tail is still pretty pathetic though :no:

Being turned out part time should not make a horse lose energy. They usually only stand around in boarding barn paddocks anyway, because they don’t have much else to do, especially if turned out solo or not on grass. They will exert lots of energy when they are on full turnout, though - not unusual for them to be a bit “tired” the first few weeks of full turnout, what with all the ranging for grass, adjusting to herd life, and such.

He has not had any soundness issues at all in the last year? Got a video?

[findeight]

Think you need the vet to rule out Lyme via a blood test. This is not something to guess at. Blood panel is not a bad idea, something could be wrong that will slowly worsen without medical intervention. Many of these things don’t run up a flag of definate, textbook symptoms. Time to call the vet. Something could be hurting as well causing lack of energy.

Mid teens is a point at which many start to show their age. 14 is on the young side…if he really is 14. Do you have written proof of his foaling date? Teeth tend to be inaccurate in teenaged horses. My 21 year old had teeth that said 17ish and my 24 year old read as late teens. Had written proof of foaling dates on both of those. Neither one ever lost much topline until late 20s, one stayed in work til 26, the other retired at 21, no difference in topline deterioration or lack thereof.

[Klang34]

Don’t shoot me for saying this, but often kissing spine or some sort of back/neck arthritis is inevitable for aging Sporthorses. Especially warmbloods and TB’s with long backs and/or weak rear-end loin structures and upright hind legs. This would be something to involve your vet with for sure.
The hustle with young horse development and increase in demand of showing and sales has decreased quality building blocks of young horses being slowly brought along to physically withstand competition fitness and work. Decrease in topline without a glaring medical condition, is most likely the cause from some sort of spinal issue, especially if the horse has not dropped weight anywhere else in the body, and it is being worked regularly and doing correct flatwork, even with aging. Depending on your region too, you could also consider EPM as a culprit.
I’m not a vet, but I have dealt with my fair share of Sporthorses with conditioning issues, and 90% of them have problems with 1) mild EPM, or previous cases of EPM going unnoticed due to the horse being in consistent work. 2) mild-severe kissing spine-some horses more stoic than others. It is treatable and maintainable with the right vet program and riding. 3) neck arthritis or narrowing in the vertebrae. Becoming more and more common with Sporthorses due to “gadget” use and improper lunging. Also more signs of neuro problems in warmbloods due to breeding, and again, “rushing the process” with the early years.
I’m not saying this is what your horse has, or that you should panic. These are the common themes I have dealt with managing show horses and listening intently to multiple vets all over the southeast discuss lameness evaluation and body conditioning. Horses are a constant puzzle. If only they could talk to us… Hope this helps with education and possible solution to your concerns.

[findeight]

Oh, yes, EPM. That’s a must check. Often manifests as vague NQR and loss of condition, they don’t all go neuro. Imported WBs are very susceptible as it’s non exsistent over there and NA horses have more built in resistance, according to my vet who handles numerous sporthorse imports. But all breeds from all places can be affected.

[gertie06]

I have no good conformation photos. I’ll take one today. Apparently, though, I have an affinity for taking pictures of him eating. Maybe this is useful, in that you can make out the ridge of his topline and the atrophy around his withers.

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[findeight]

Head down exaggerates the withers anyway. Just grab somebody to take a picture on your phone while you hold him on a flat surface, preferably with a wall behind him.

[FlamingoRider]

Loss of topline was my guy’s first symptom of EPM. I noticed it 5 months before he had any other symptoms. Three vets saw him that winter/spring and it wasn’t on anybody’s radar. In fact loss of muscling and becoming a hard keeper were the only symptoms he had until we went to an away show. He jumped clear, won a reserve and two top-fives, but didn’t feel right. Came home and he seemed really exhausted. Vet sent us to the university, where a spinal tap confirmed the specialist’s suspicion. He didn’t show typical “nuero” symptoms until the week after diagnosis.

[gertie06]

Okay, update. The vet was out today for another horse, so we had her take a look. Based on his body condition and soundness, she did not think we should test for Lyme YET. She said he looked like he needed more protein, but not more fat (because he’s already fat). She said to put him on a protein supplement or ration balancer for 4 weeks and reassess. So now, my post has turned into a totally different question. I’ll start a new thread accordingly.

[CindyCRNA]

I own this horse. Except he’s a 9 year old Holsteiner. Loves to just plod around nose out front, not pushing from behind. Someone suggested riding in draw reins 3 times a week. Made a huge difference. Unfortunately I stopped and he lost rear end and top line musculature. He has been thoroughly worked up. He is not sore, he would just rather not push from behind and plod around. So back to draw reins and a flake and a half a day of alfalfa. Muscled right back up. And no one give me grief about draw reins. They work for some horses. My are loose, almost flopping with just a tad of reminding with my little finger. Best investment ever.