Like I said what a bafoon. I am sure that will edited also. His comments should be deleted from this board they are always imflammatory and critical of anything that he isn’t capable of understanding. Which isn’t much.
Thanks BoD. It was scary. :eek: It’s like that one moment where you can’t think straight because you don’t know what to do. All I could focus on was getting my knee on the same side of the gate as the horse. Ugh. Stuff happens so fast. She’s such a nice little mare and very smart but I don’t know what happened. She just looked down at that drop with the water and panicked/bolted sideways and forward. Now - in all honestly, the drop was about 18". Not like it was a cliff or anything. LOL. That’s the scariest near miss I believe I’ve ever had.
Renegade Boots
I have been using the Renegade boots for a few months. I’m thirlled with them. I’m an endurance rider, I was using easy boot epics but the gaiter was causing rubs. I didn’t like having to use vet wrap to stop rubbing. The vet wrap I feel created heat. So no complaints with the renegades. Fit is very important, thats why you have to buy them and have them fit by a hoof care person. They now have glue on boots for competition which i will be trying in June on a tough Canadian ride.
diane
JHshoer, your comments about boots will have more credibilty if you actually have experience with them. If you think they are a trash product, then please list why from your own experience in riding with them. I have heard of a shoer getting sued when a shod horse slipped on pavement resulting in injuries to the rider. It was six years in court before it was determined not to be the shoer’s fault since the client didn’t ask for borium. His lawyer was the only one who benefitted in that case. If I were you I wouldn’t advocate somebody initiating a law suit due to and accident that could have happend shod, booted, or barefoot.
There are many of us who do a lot of miles in boots, and while finding the right boot for our horses can be aggravating, they are not trash products. My boy goes great in OM’s. They look awful, but I really don’t care since he puts a lot of miles on them and they are holding up great so far. We use Epics on the hinds, but I don’t like the tread: it is slippery on wet grass.
I’m thinking that bungee closure system made it easier for the boots to be sucked off, since they stretch. If this is a problem and you found the boots, I still recommend ordering upclips which can replace the bungee and prevent a similar occurrence in the future.
My boy ripped many a gaiter and pulled boots before I figured out how to modify it. I was lucky that the boot banging around didn’t spook him.
I finally got to examine a pair of Cavallos yesterday. The tread looks good without encouraging a build up of mud. They look very easy to apply and should stay on nicely. There is nothing in the back for a hind hoof to grap and pull the boot off. At $120 a pair, they are an affordable option. When I need to replace my OM’s, I might try the cavallos instead. I’ve got to see how long they are compared to width. My horse needs boots that are as wide as the are long, which is why OM’s are such a good choice for him.
I have been using Easyboot bares for about 8 months on my horse’s hind hooves. I hunt in them and they’ve worked great. I had a lot of trouble keeping the epics on my horse. So I guess you have to try different boots until you find the one that works best for your horse.
Believe me … I tried the cotter pins. They just bend. I’ve even ripped a few of the clips completely off of the Epics. Those Old Dominion rocks can be very tough on clips and pins, but I’ve had no problems with the Bares. I also had problems with the cables breaking. No more Epics for me! The Bares are a very good fit on my Paso.
[QUOTE=matryoshka;3212038]
JHshoer, your comments about boots will have more credibilty if you actually have experience with them. If you think they are a trash product, then please list why from your own experience in riding with them.[/QUOTE] I haven’t ridden a horse since sometime in the '90s if I recall correctly. The 2 things have nothing to do with each other any more than driving an automobile makes one a qualified mechanic.
I have heard of a shoer getting sued when a shod horse slipped on pavement resulting in injuries to the rider. It was six years in court before it was determined not to be the shoer’s fault since the client didn’t ask for borium. His lawyer was the only one who benefitted in that case. If I were you I wouldn’t advocate somebody initiating a law suit due to and accident that could have happend shod, booted, or barefoot.
Thrown out of court it should have been. No product liability there as there could be here. I got a better one for you. I remember a woman trying to sue a horseshoer once. Funny thing happened, she couldn’t get her horses shod. Not by ANYBODY! Lawsuit was dropped. Cool huh?
There are many of us who do a lot of miles in boots, and while finding the right boot for our horses can be aggravating, they are not trash products. My boy goes great in OM’s. They look awful, but I really don’t care since he puts a lot of miles on them and they are holding up great so far. We use Epics on the hinds, but I don’t like the tread: it is slippery on wet grass.
Slippery on wet grass. Dangerous. Just like Slypner horseshoes which were another trash product that is thankfully gone. Thanks for making that point for me as well.
My boy ripped many a gaiter and pulled boots before I figured out how to modify it. I was lucky that the boot banging around didn’t spook him.
More equipment failures. Yeah lucky you were.
I’ve got to see how long they are compared to width. My horse needs boots that are as wide as the are long, which is why OM’s are such a good choice for him.
If you’d get your horse shod the fit would be perfect. On those boots they never will be no matter what.
Check this out http://www.horseshoeingmuseum.com/article2.htm
Every single shoe you see there served some kind of purpose. They were made individually to serve horses needs. Any type of one size fits all thing is unnacceptable. It fails to adequately suit the animal’s needs. Hoofboots with their inability to be custom fit is their biggest drawback.
Now, being as that you think I’m a dinosaur stuck in the stone age for sticking to a tried and proven by over 2000 years of history method of hoofcare, I’ll enlighten you to this. The Egyptians used animal skins on their horses feet not unlike moccasins. In the 12th century the Mongols refined the concept and developed a rawhide cup. Hmmmmmm sound familiar? Later the early Greeks and Romans used various boots and sandals and such as well. (obviously barefoot didn’t work out for them either) Point being that the use of boots is not a new development by any stretch of the imagination. They’ve been around much longer than shoes. As technology progressed they were replaced by better things. In this case iron horseshoes.
Is nothing new in the equine world;)
George
I knew boots were not a new concept but thanks for pointing out the history as you did. However, I’d dare say that we are working with much improved technology and materials now than leather skins wouldn’t you? 
However, if 2000 years ago, they started to nail metal to the horses feet and you are still doing so two millennium later, that doesn’t say much for progress does it? Why damage the hoof wall with nails if you don’t have to? At least if a boot comes off you are not missing a huge chunk of wall as you risk with a shoe.
As for slippery on wet grass… I nearly got killed in plain steel shoes on wet grass some years ago eventing. Without traction devices like studs and borium, steel shoes can be wicked slippery also. I remember what a PITA putting studs in my shoes was…UGH…cleaning out the threads, fixing screwed up taps, etc… Nothing comes without some shortcomings…nothing. 
Truth is when we ask horses to perform unnatural acts carrying us on their backs, we have to consider that there can be unintended consequences and do our best to protect the horse and be safe. If that is a nailed on shoe that works best for you, than more power to you but it is not right to criticize those folks who are happy with boots. Technology is giving us more choices than we ever had before and empowering horse owners with more control than ever before in their horse’s hoof care. 
That’s great you could find boots that work! I’ve never had problems with cotter pins but then I have never ridden the OD trail either. :winkgrin:
So that is assuming that the horseshoer is capable of PERFECTLY fitting the shoes, and that he does so, correct? And that is also assuming that the horse’s hoof doesn’t grow at all during the cycle because we all know that after the first few days or so, the fit is no longer perfect.
If horseshoers did it perfect 100% of the time, why would we need these forums? They are littered with photos and stories of lame horses, short shod, hot nails, wrong package alltogether, incorrect trims, inbalance, infection…blah blah blah.
You make the assumption that every horseshoer in the world can PERFECTLY fit the perfect set of shoes and everything will be peaches and roses. Well let me tell you what - on our farm we have had FAR more drama and trouble out of horseshoes than when horses were left barefoot or were booted. Why do you think I made the switch?! It certainly wasn’t because the farriers were gods gift to humanity and made all the horses to soar on angel wings. It was because I got sick of all the infection, imbalance, lameness, abcesses, white line disease, and NO RESOLUTION of above said. Hoof boots have given me an excellent protection alternative. Why does that bother you so much? If you want to shoe horses, and you are happy in shoes, then stick with it! Everyone makes their own choice.
Farriers seem threatened by hoof boots and “barefoot” because it infringes upon their bottom dollar, or they view it as a threat. I read a quote in an American FArrier’s Journal one time that said something like - The best kind of client is one who never shows up at the barn. Now why would somebody say that? Also I just “loved” the article outlining how many horses need to be shod every year to turn a good profit. You can only aford to keep a certain percentage of your clients barefoot until you start losing money. Those magazines are a real eye opener.
So I get the feeling that the hoof boot war goes a lot deeper than “farriers just don’t like it.” There should be no reason to go on a personal vandetta against people and products that don’t even concern you unless you have an underlying cause. I don’t run around the shoeing boards starting fights over how horrible shoes are. I don’t really care. If somebody asks about barefoot, or boots, I’ll give my opinions and viewpoints. And then sit back and get attacked by the farriers for being so stupid and foolish. Oh well - it is what it is.
Sat I got a call from a lady wanting me to take on her 6 horses. Problem is they are all gaited trail horses and they keep all 6 shod all the way around. I told her I was a trimmer and I don’t do shoes. She said “Ohhhh no!!” But I said, I can give you the name of the only farrier in this area that I would recommend. Don’t know if he has room in his book for you, but you can try. I gave her the name and number, we chatted about trail riding for 15 minutes, then hung up. I never mentioned a word about barefoot or hoof boots. It’s not my job to convince people of anything. People are gonna do what they’re gonna do. She had my website and she could have read all day if she wanted to. I only trim part time so I have no personal mission to steal as many shod clients as I can. In fact, I’m pretty happy with the number I have right now.
Well said A2. I wish we could discuss facts or techniques and leave the personalities and petty bickering out of it. How ever if we did that many wouldn’t have anything to say. Which might not be a bad thing.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3213550]
Hoof boots have given me an excellent protection alternative. I see no reason why that should bother you so much?? If you want to shoe horses, and you are happy in shoes, then stick with it! Everyone makes their own choice and I really cannot understand why the drama.[/QUOTE]
What bothers me is this crap is pushed onto new people who listens to whoever hells the loudest. People come here for advice and boots and treeless saddles are pushed down their throat.
Next we will be backing a horse through the entire ride. Anything it make it more difficult.
All these infections, hoofs half ripped off I have never experience in 50 years of riding and keeping horses shod. You make it sound like cruelty just nialing a shoe on a foot???
If a horse can live for 35 years wearing shoes and still have nice feet what is wrong with that??
For every case you find that shoing has hurt a horse I can find one that going barefoot caused a problem.
Norval - you have to understand that farrier care varies by demographics. The farrier you have there to shoe your horses is not the same I have here. They all go to different schools, and they have different thoughts and methods. It is not regulated.
So if something is working for YOU, then keep doing it. What works for me is what I’ll keep doing. If somebody asks a question about shoeless horses or boots, those of us who have experience with that will share it if people ask. You’re free to share what works for you too. But there’s no need to attack other people about it.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3213618]
.
So if something is working for YOU, then keep doing it. .[/QUOTE]
Yes it works for me and everyone else I know around me. So why can’t it work for you too or anyone else seeking advice from this forum??
I am sure I could put a set of shoes on your mare and she would be quite happy and run sound and no more fiddling with boots and all that entails.
For about 1 1/2 hours every 8 week yes you have to put up with the farrier making a visit but then you can forget about it.
I offer people a very good guarantee with every shoing because very few ever get to collect.
A properly installed shoe is maintenace free, offers great traction devices depending on conditions and resists wear of the foot.
Plus the farrier can point out or correct any problems the horse is having with each visit.
Boots add bulk to the foot, add more places for mud to get a hold. All those fasteners and wire offer more places to hang up a foot it debree and wire.
sweetie
your posts do nothing for the horseshoeing camp. perhaps you should work on your delivery;)
The world is flat, the world is flat!!! Those people finally died off like some others we know will.
People do things differently Norval. Deal with it. 
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3213550]
So that is assuming that the horseshoer is capable of PERFECTLY fitting the shoes, and that he does so, correct? [/QUOTE] As any qualified, competent horseshoer can easily do.
If horseshoers did it perfect 100% of the time, why would we need these forums?
We DONT need these forums. Most of us got through our entire lives just fine without them. They do however serve as a good source of self amusement.
They are littered with photos and stories of lame horses, short shod, hot nails, wrong package alltogether, incorrect trims, inbalance, infection…blah blah blah.
Again the silence from our British friends is deafening.
You make the assumption that every horseshoer in the world can PERFECTLY fit the perfect set of shoes and everything will be peaches and roses. Well let me tell you what - on our farm we have had FAR more drama and trouble out of horseshoes than when horses were left barefoot or were booted. Why do you think I made the switch?!
Perhaps you were a PITA client that nobody wanted to work for? Oh never mind carry on:lol:
It certainly wasn’t because the farriers were gods gift to humanity and made all the horses to soar on angel wings.
Well what can I say? The impossible we can do but miracles take some time;)
It was because I got sick of all the infection, imbalance, lameness, abcesses, white line disease, and NO RESOLUTION of above said.
Sounds like poor animal husbandry could have been a factor as well.
Hoof boots have given me an excellent protection alternative. Why does that bother you so much?
Because it’s not in the best interests of the horse
[edit]
Farriers seem threatened by hoof boots and “barefoot” because it infringes upon their bottom dollar, or they view it as a threat.
Coming at me with a weapon I’d take as a threat. [edit]
I read a quote in an American FArrier’s Journal one time that said something like - The best kind of client is one who never shows up at the barn. Now why would somebody say that?
Obviously your taking it out of context but from my own personal antisocial point of view I can say that oftentimes I can relate to that statement.
Also I just “loved” the article outlining how many horses need to be shod every year to turn a good profit. You can only aford to keep a certain percentage of your clients barefoot until you start losing money. Those magazines are a real eye opener.
Can you cite the month and year youre referring to? If that in fact was said it’s wrong. Me and most of the guys I know trim about 80% of our horses. I’ve found it much more profitable than shoeing. Nothing new there. Always was that way.
So I get the feeling that the hoof boot war goes a lot deeper than “farriers just don’t like it.”
Not at all. In fact I’ve recommended trail riders carry one in their saddle bags as they make a great spare tire in an emergency.
There should be no reason to go on a personal vandetta against people and products that don’t even concern you unless you have an underlying cause.
Underlying cause is the health, safety, and well being of horses. For those who see everything as financial I’ll say that this is more of a lifestyle than a business. If I cared that much about money I’d be peddling junk bonds down on Wall St.
I don’t run around the shoeing boards starting fights over how horrible shoes are.
You really don’t want to have me go find some stuff said by you now do you?
George
Ugh. Don’t you guys EVER get tired of hollering and throwing things at each other? Seriously now. And A2, you’re contributing to this right now too. Shame on you all. I DON’T want all this crap boiling over into the Trail/Endurance subforum! :no:
As for OP, TBH I haven’t heard very many good things about the bares. I have a pair of Easyboots myself, the standard ones without a gaiter. BUT, I only use them on a gravel driveway (which is why I bought them in the first place), so really I haven’t tested them much on ‘stickability’. But in the very least, the ones without gaiters wont get caught up and spook a horse I suppose. Aren’t the Grips supposed to be better for mud too? I’m not sure… 
Both “sides” have presented their views about the utility of boots in general and defended their views. Now return to the specific topic addressed by the OP and don’t turn the thread into a general discussion of different hoof care philosophies.
Thanks,
Mod 1
