You said you don’t want to feed soy, but it’s the first ingredient in the Dynamite?
It sounds like your horses have done poorly when they haven’t been fed enough hay, and that your new barn owner is much better about feeding your horses enough hay–yay! Have you seen them start to lose topline at this new barn?
If the answer is no, you really may not need anything.
But if you’d like make SURE, and you’d still like to avoid soy, it would be entirely reasonable to feed a handful of oats (or a small amount of chaff hay, something like this) along with a vit/mineral supplement like Smart Thrive or Uckele’s Equi-VM, and tri-amino (from Uckele) or nutramino (from Horsetech). With that you’re covering what you need FAR more efficiently than all of the Dynamite stuff. You’re getting your limiting amino acids which should help with the topline problem and your vitamin/mineral needs are met.
Or just go with a ration balancer of your choosing.
Probably best to back away from the Dynamite stuff, though. More isn’t better. Frankly, I find it pretty scary that you’re on their “high selenium” formula (AND offering more free choice, YIKES) without a hay test. Have you ever pulled an Se test on the horses??
My horse has done really well on TC 30% RB. I also add a hoof supplement with biotin, aa’s and minerals and some flax. He gets mixed alfalfa and bermuda hay (not as much or as good quality as I would like, but that will be changing soon when I change barns). He is only 4, so still developing, so I want to keep the protein level up, but he is also a pretty easy keeper, and the RB is great for upping the protein with minimal extra calories. Since your horses are losing topline, you will probably want to increase the protein some, either with a RB, an AA supplement like Tri-amino or even alfalfa pellets will help.
Now, let me tell you the good news. Years ago we located an organic soybean farmer who raises and processes his own beans using no chemicals in his growing or processing. The beans are actually forced with high pressure through small holes and the result is a beautiful, golden meal that is 38% protein and 16% fat with all the lecithin, vitamins and minerals intact. It smells so good you could put it on your cereal. We call it whole-extruded or full energy soybeans. This is the only soybean product used in any Dynamite® product. Although this product costs twice as much as soybean meal, we think animal health is darn well worth it.
BUT I have fed my boys soy before and I didn’t see any reaction from them… use to feed Progressive ProAdvantage Grass Formula RB… [/B]
It sounds like your horses have done poorly when they haven’t been fed enough hay, and that your new barn owner is much better about feeding your horses enough hay–yay! Have you seen them start to lose topline at this new barn?
Yes, and they have been there since the beginning of the year (March/April)
If the answer is no, you really may not need anything.
But if you’d like make SURE, and you’d still like to avoid soy, it would be entirely reasonable to feed a handful of oats (or a small amount of chaff hay, something like this) along with a vit/mineral supplement like Smart Thrive or Uckele’s Equi-VM, and tri-amino (from Uckele) or nutramino (from Horsetech). With that you’re covering what you need FAR more efficiently than all of the Dynamite stuff. You’re getting your limiting amino acids which should help with the topline problem and your vitamin/mineral needs are met.
Or just go with a ration balancer of your choosing.
Probably best to back away from the Dynamite stuff, though. More isn’t better. Frankly, I find it pretty scary that you’re on their “high selenium” formula (AND offering more free choice, YIKES) without a hay test. Have you ever pulled an Se test on the horses??[/QUOTE]
[B]They aren’t on the Dynamite stuff any longer, but no I have not had the horses tested for Se… the horses are in Osage County in Oklahoma - not sure if I understand what the number means from clicking Osage on the Se map:
Yes they’re losing topline or yes they’re being fed enough hay?
They aren’t on the Dynamite stuff any longer, but no I have not had the horses tested for Se… the horses are in Osage County in Oklahoma - not sure if I understand what the number means from clicking Osage on the Se map:
Why were you using the “high selenium” formula (plus also offering it free choice)? Was there a reason behind that? Glad to hear you’ve stopped but curious if there was something that triggered that sort of decision, especially if the horses have never been tested.
You’ve got a heck of a lot going on there with their diets. Personally I’d ditch most of it and go with a small amount of feed (whatever is enough to mix a vit/min supplement in), a couple ounces of whole flax, a few pounds of good alfalfa, free choice grass hay and salt block. If they’re not being worked, chances are their toplines aren’t going to significantly improve with just added protein.
Yes they are still losing topline even when they have hay in front of them -
After my youngest Missouri Foxtrotter Scout was diagnosed with stifle issues that’s when I decided to go on this no process feeds/organic/feed salads path… because I didn’t want to do surgery or inject him… so that’s what got all of this started… I joined a holistic group on Facebook and that’s what she advises to feed your horses… vitamin/mineral etc… all from Dynamite… it got way too expensive -
[B]They aren’t on the Dynamite stuff any longer, but no I have not had the horses tested for Se… the horses are in Osage County in Oklahoma - not sure if I understand what the number means from clicking Osage on the Se map:
You do realize that the major reason folks take their horses off soy is that the horse is allergic or sensitive to soy beans per so, not to GMO soybeans or soybeans processed one way or the other. Also mares can be sensitive to the phystoestrogens. As can people.
So if you have a real reason to keep the horse (or yourself) off soy products, organic, steam pressed, whatever doesn’t change that.
I’d also add that kale, being of the cabbage family, is not a good food choice for horses, and that all the cruciferous veggies are on the no-feed list because they tend to cause gas, and hence gas colic. Obviously one kale leaf is not a problem. But why bother?
OP, you should get a copy of Juliet Getty’s “Feed Your Horse Like a Horse,” which has the current best practices for feeding a forage-first diet, and all the formulas and tables you will need for calculating nutrients.
Loss of topline can be due to overall poor nutrition, to lack of protein or specific limiting proteins, and also due to not enough correct exercise to build muscle. Obviously it can also be due to lack of total calories, if the horse loses weight overall. Some photos of the horses would be useful.
Yes I am fully aware that the reason horses have poor top lines is due to lack of protein, lack of proper exercise and lack of calories - and I wasn’t only feeding kale I was also feeding a lot of other things if you had bother to read all of my replies. Obviously I am trying to get on the right path and keep my horses healthy…
You are trying so hard and I applaud you for that. You have also gone to the extreme with the overpriced " trendy" stuff and that made it so much harder than it should be.
I think now that you have decided to go with something more affordable and “local” that is widely used successfully by many horse owners, you will not only see positive results, you will save a boatload of money too.
You may have to experiment with amounts and maybe even brands of feed to see what works best for them. That is normal for some.
Feed a ration balancer and add a lb or so of Alfalfa cubes or pellets and maybe some Flax. Feed it for 30 days and see what you have. Alfalfa has plenty of protein combined with the ration balancer for easy keepers. Keep it simple and be done with it.
Your cost will do down significantly and horses will have the protein needed to help with a topline. It really is hard to give more advice than that without pictures of the top line loss and knowing where they are on the BCS scale.
Lots of super knowledgeable people here regarding diet, you’ve already gotten a lot of great advice. I can’t really add much other than my testimonial for Nutrena Empower Topline Balance.
I have 3 geldings, 2 half arabs(xsaddlebreds) and one standardbred. I switched all 3 to this RB, they each get around 2 lbs of it. They also get natural vit e, magnesium, salt, msm, and a bit of oil to make stuff stick, and a little bit more through winter. They all get timothy hay and ~2 lbs dry alfalfa cubes 5x a week. Can’t test hay in my boarding situation. One of the arabs, my little dude perpetually in Strugglesville, gets some added tri-aminos even on top of that. Yes I know it sounds like a ton of aminos but this guy has seriously blossomed on this diet and has made changes that I didn’t think were possible for him. The other half arab has as well, who was getting better slowly via work, made a drastic change in a short period of time with the switch to this RB. The standardbred kinda always looks great (okay maybe i’m a little biased), and I haven’t seen as much change in his muscling- he is very shiny and cleans up pretty nice. Their energy levels are great, they are level headed and look great.
Yes, I know TC is better, I started there. They find it less palatable and around here anyway it does tend to be more expensive. I wouldn’t mind the price if they actually ate it, lol. I’m generally a TC person as it is and spent many a dollar on their products, and quite frankly was a bit worried switching to Nutrena. But so far I really like what I see - my horses are doing really well on it and at this point I have no reason to change.
Well, I am looking for either TC 30% or Progressive’s ration balancer - we have a feed store that use to carry a bunch of Progressive feeds but I looked on their website and they only have their fat supplement, so I sent them an email asking them if they had it…or had any other RBs…
I also emailed our local Atwoods (might call them tomorrow) and ask them if they could get in TC 30% since they carry other TC lines…
Also what size do the pictures need to be to upload them? I have some pictures from when i first moved them to where they are now in the beginning of March - but not sure how to upload pics.
Local feed store i buy feed from gets TC senior for me monthly. TC isn’t a brand they carry,but they are willing to get it in. There’s a few others that also get TC products from our local feed store.It’s family owned and there very nice to deal with.
While I think those 2 brands are in the top 5, quality-wise, don’t let their lack of immediate availability be yet another reason you avoid making a change. Any RB will do, truthfully, at least to start. If you’re concerned about ionophores, then go with Purina Enrich if that’s easily available.
A friend of mine only feeds organic and non GMO to her horses and always has. I believe she eats the same way. They tend to get minerals, salt, alfalfa pellets, oats and a mixture of seeds (sunflower, pumpkin and flax). I know some horses she has had since weanlings, and I’m sorry to say they all have arthritis. In two cases, it has become debilitating by age 10. It’s debilitating because one horse had a massive trauma it appears (withers), and the other has arthritis in multiple joints. She does not believe in using any medications —NSAIDs, steroid injections, etc and does not want to spend the money on biologics (IRAP and the like, which is at least “natural”). The horses eat like kings but unfortunately that is not the be all end all to orthopedic disease, no matter what the Facebook group tells you. Diet at a very young age can play a part in OCD lesions, but other than that, there’s not a lot of correlation between diets and healthy joints, to speak generally.
I had a bad expirience about horses feeding… So now I advise to pay more attention to the food and health of your horse…
It was winter and my horse began to drink more water … then greatly increased appetite and urination. I thought it was a reaction for the winter.
But then I noticed that the horse’s mouth was dry. And there was a problem with salivation. Then I already turned to the vet, he diagnosed diabetes.
Of course, I am guilty of myself, for did not control food enough… I began to prick him insulin, unfortunately, he caused allergies in horse. But then I changed the vet, and the new one advised me to buy quality hypoallergenic insulin on the site http://canadainsulinconnection.com , with a large selection of preparations for animals. I immediately followed all his instructions and a few weeks later my horse began to feel better.
After that case the vet told me, that the diet was wrong and recommended the special one. In this way, I think it would be better to choose food for horse with specialist…
