Love the property / hate the house... Updated Post #138

[Quelah]

We bought our place 14 years ago. Lovely useable 5 acres in the Bay Area with access to 40,000 acres of parkland. The house…I referred to it then and I refer to it now, as the stucco toad. It’s Spanish style, stucco, red tile roof. I’d rather live in a mobile home. Seriously.

But you know what? When I’m inside, I don’t see the outside, and since we DID live first in a tiny apartment on top of a barn, then for reals in a single wide mobile home for 15 years ( I still miss it! ) while we were saving up the down for this place, I’ve come to appreciate this house’s generous proportions, however unattractive I find the exterior

[julesp313]

I’m almost in the same boat - looking for a place where I can have my horse and maybe one or two friends’ horses, with a space for my mother (with some separation, like the basement), preferably a space for the husband and his myriad toys, and with some semblance of horse facilities already in place. All within budget and not an hour long commute into the cities. It’s a unicorn property but I know they’re out there - I’m just having a really hard time with being patient!

All that to say - I feel your pain, and I don’t know what the answer is!

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=Kodidog763;8802715]
…
Building a home with the MIL apartment is an option - it just requires tearing down the existing house, which seems wasteful.[/QUOTE]

Let’s think about that another way. It’s the old house that is wasteful, badly located with water in the basement, etc. It’s a drawback for the property. If this is the right property for you in every other way, it is a waste NOT to take away the old house and build something new that is much better for the property, and the new owners who will love it. :yes:

If there are other drawbacks about the property or the area that are significant to you, though, the old house is just the final straw to keep looking. How important is a separate MIL house, as opposed to a MIL wing? Does the city/county have other restrictions that don’t suit? If so, I’d look outside the jurisdiction, in one that is a better fit for your preferences.

Good luck on a great new place, be it this one, or something else!

[OverandOnward]

Here are a few more rationalizations for NOT saving the old house …

• Are you in love with it?

• Is it an historic landmark?

• Will anyone miss it? No. Or even remember it? Eh. The family that left, and any other previous residents, have photos to remember it by.

• Does it represent anything uniquely of interest to architects or anyone else? If so, they can buy it and give tours. :winkgrin:

• Are there other houses in the world for people to live in? Yep, lots.

So - there ya go.

IMO … It’s not wasteful to do away with the old house. There is no real reason to save it. I recommend not encouraging your warm feelings for something that isn’t special to you, and no one else even wants.

It’s a non-living thing. There are lots and lots of things in the world that aren’t of much use to anyone anymore. Best to let them go and not look back.

[pony4me]

We went the “tear down and build new” route and are very happy we did so.

[Velvet]

Can you get a variance for the old house and building a new one?

[judybigredpony]

I can only say…Don t buy it if you have to live in a house you hate…You will Always hate it…

[wireweiners]

Could the house be moved? If so, perhaps you could sell the old house and make a little toward a new one. I watch a lot of HGTV.

[stb]

If you can get the place cheap enough to make the numbers work I would tear down the existing house and build what you want. I don’t think it’s wasteful to tear down a house that needs extensive renovation and has a leaky foundation due to poor placement. To me, renovating that house would be pouring good money after bad. Since you are married to a contractor, you are in the perfect position to make this place work (I’m married to a contractor, too, BTW).

Horse properties that you love and that are in the area you want to live in are few and far between around here. I wouldn’t pass one up that is fixable.

For what it’s worth, my husband and I looked for our property for over a year before finding our place. The horse part is pretty much perfect, the house - not so much. Not a bad house but certainly not as nice a house as my previous custom built home. However, the bones of the house are good and we are updating a bit at a time. Every time I step out my door and see my property my spirits rise. I like a nice house but the property is the thing that really does it for me.

[Minuet]

I’m for tearing down and rebuilding.
Well, if you don’t want to keep looking.

Do NOT live in a house you hate. If you aren’t in love with it, that’s one thing, and if it’s something you can change over time, that’s ok too. But if you can’t change it or learn to love it, don’t do it. The things that you dislike now will make you miserable later. We have been living in an old house while we are building the new one, and it is getting old fast. We’ve been here longer than we planned and it sucks.

[froglander]

Sometimes I wish we had kept looking as the place we got is not set up for horses (not fenced unless you count one side of barbed wire towards the neighbors cows), and the house did not thrill us and my husband has an hour commute to work.

The house has grown on us, the fencing is a work in progress, and right now I can look out the office window and see my horse. It’s a lovely area (we actually live on a hill in Florida!)

It was hard to wait because we were staying at my husband’s parents’ house so that may have colored our decision somewhat.

You can rebuild and remodel stuff, but the one thing you can’t change is location. Do you like the location of this property?

Lol, other than distance to work, we like the location of ours, it is outside of town, on a quiet side street, all agricultural zoning, there is an orange grove across the street, and we have nice neighbors.

[danacat]

@Kodidog763;8802658

I’m not sure it makes sense to remove the kitchen from the existing house to classify it as a guesthouse. But it is an option. I suppose my mother could do all of her cooking in my kitchen.

Reading through the city code, it is not clear what the city considers commercial

If you LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the property - love the price - and have the finances to build your dream home somewhere else on the property - and have finances to renovate the existing house, then I think you should go for it.

You can take out the existing kitchen in the old house - get a CO for it as a guest house and when the building inspector is GONE you can put the kitchen back in. Yes this is illegal (hush hush) but it will only be a problem if a nasty neighbor spills the beans. It will also be a problem if you ever want to sell the property. You’d have to take the kitchen back out and return it to a ‘guest house’ as per the code - unless you get a cash buyer who doesn’t need a property inspection in order to get a loan.

As for commercial status. Usually you have to form a business of some kind (limited partnership or other) and register it with the state as such. Then you have to keep books, complete tax returns, have a different type of insurance and on and on. A real headache just to ‘hire’ your MIL to sweep the barn.

I’m not encouraging you to do anything illegal - but people add kitchens (where they aren’t supposed to be) all the time. I put a kitchen in the finished, walk-out basement of my house so a friend in need could live there. Now I am selling the house and plan to take the kitchen out, thus returning the basement (it had a full existing bath) to its original status as a 'guest quarters/MIL space.

[js]

I say buy and remodel the house, add a bedroom suite if possible, fix the leaky basement and enjoy that you found an affordable place with a barn and indoor arena!

You might find that once you are living in the house that its not as bad as it seemed. Nothing is ever going to be perfect unless you build it yourself (and then it isn’t always perfect either). If the house is sound structurally and this is just about layout and design, then either look at ways to redo the interior to work better for you or decorate it to the hilt and learn to love, provided all else about the property is worth it. Finding the perfect barn, indoor, fencing etc. is probably much harder than finding the perfect house, unless you have a limitless budget.

[invinoveritas]

Location, location, location is always what my real estate agent said. She was always right. If you love the property, buy it. Just make sure the zonng will let you put in a small barn apt or something to live in. If the land and neighborhood is great, you can build something to live in, even without a lot of money.

[Jersey_Fresh]

I think it would be worth it to get an estimate as to how much it would take to make that house livable.

That being said, I would probably pass and keep looking. We did that and found the perfect property.

We ultimately decided that most of our time would be spent in the house and we did not want to compromise on that.

[Larissa]

My husband and I are in nearly the exact same boat. He’s a builder/contractor and has all the expertise necessary to renovate or start from scratch. We’re currently looking at a property with a house in similar condition, except instead of water in the basement it has snakes in the attic (and ventilation?) and some structural challenges.

For us the property, location and all-in price are our determining factors. With the hubs’ background the rest can all be fixed, if given enough time The code seems to be limiting for you guys so creativity may be key. Does the house’s location or style prevent you from adding on (a whole new house)? Would cost or moral adherence to the letter of the law dictate you couldn’t remove the kitchen, convert to MIL’s “guest house” and then return the kitchen to functional? Could you just classify the house as on-site living quarters for prospective staff for a prospective commercial stable with an indeterminate opening date and build new for yourself? What sort of style is the house that it couldn’t be renovated to suit?

If the budget allows, eliminating the current house and situating a modular home away from the water problem would likely be the “easiest” solution. Your husband is a tough cookie if he actually wants to dive into a reno with known problems. It’s pretty much a rule that you’ll discover 10,000 new problems in an older, existing home reno. We just completed a full reno of a 1,000 sf rancher and added 3,000 new sf. The 1,000 sf of reno EASILY took as long as the 3x larger new space - and finish work on the addition was so, so much easier to get right.

[fordtraktor]

Since your DH is a contractor it makes perfect sense to me to tear this down and start over. Esp since there is a basement water problem.

Plus, beware not having an indoor if you want to ride at home in the winter at all! That is my situation and snow country it is difficult. the fact this place has a nice one is a strong selling point to me.

I don’t think it is absurd to consider this property in your situation but I also think it would be fine to wait for another one. with two small kids I chose not to do a property that needed a build or a remodel – I just didn’t want to deal with it!

[Kodidog763]

[QUOTE=Velvet;8803243]
Can you get a variance for the old house and building a new one?[/QUOTE]

It’s possible, but after speaking to the city, not likely, so we can’t count on that being an option. Trouble with a variance, is that you never know until you apply, and we can’t apply until we own the property. But we might be able to try having the city classify it as a guest house and asking for a variance to allow us to have a kitchenette (keeping the sink & cabinets & and a refrigerator) in it.

You can rebuild and remodel stuff, but the one thing you can’t change is location. Do you like the location of this property?

The location is great. It is only about 5 miles from our current home. We love the area, and it means we could live in our current house while we build the new one, since we are just a few minutes away.

As for commercial status. Usually you have to form a business of some kind (limited partnership or other) and register it with the state as such. Then you have to keep books, complete tax returns, have a different type of insurance and on and on. A real headache just to ‘hire’ your MIL to sweep the barn.

We already own a couple of businesses, so this part doesn’t concern me as much as some of the other city regulations with regards to a commercial horse facility when it comes time to rebuild the barn (bathrooms are required in commercial barns, etc).

I think it would be worth it to get an estimate as to how much it would take to make that house livable.

DH is a general contractor who has done work in the house for the current owners, so he is pretty familiar with the what needs to be done. But, as most contractors will tell you, when you start digging into a house, there are bound to be surprises. Often expensive surprises.

[clanter]

[QUOTE=Kodidog763;8802844]

It can also be a challenge to get financing on a house in poor condition. If we can’t get a standard mortgage, we do have the option of using our investment lender to make the purchase. We would then have to refinance after building or remodeling. Not everyone has that option.[/QUOTE]

As you say not every one is in a position to use alternative financing so use that to your advantage, offer less

Since your husband is in construction I find it somewhat odd there is hesitation solely on the structure, we never even looked at the house that was on the land we purchased because we wanted the land for the horses, the house was just there. To us the land was worth more than the asking price, so we walked the property and handed them a contract … the surprise was we were completely correct, the land was worth much more than the asking price.

[Kodidog763]

except instead of water in the basement it has snakes in the attic (and ventilation?)
OMG! I couldn’t do snakes - I’m willing to put up with quite a bit, but not snakes in the house. :eek:

The code seems to be limiting for you guys so creativity may be key. Does the house’s location or style prevent you from adding on (a whole new house)?

It is a split entry with an awkward addition on it, and the house is positioned in a wet spot. It’s just not practical (cost-wise) to turn the house into something we want. For our home, it makes much more sense to build new on a better site. We plan to be there until we are ready to retire to a townhome. However putting just enough money/effort to make it liveable as a MIL apartment (which we’ll only need for a limited # of years) is do-able.

Would cost or moral adherence to the letter of the law dictate you couldn’t remove the kitchen, convert to MIL’s “guest house” and then return the kitchen to functional?
This is a consideration, but based on the city’s definition of a kitchen, it looks like we would have to pull out all of the cabinetry and the sink. That’s a little more involved than just pulling out appliances… But if we tried to get a variance for a full kitchen, maybe we could get the city to settle on a variance for a kitchenette (or at least let us leave the cabinets & sink).

Plus, beware not having an indoor if you want to ride at home in the winter at all! That is my situation and snow country it is difficult. the fact this place has a nice one is a strong selling point to me.
This is a big selling point for me. I currently have the horses at home, and I have no where to ride. It sucks! I know that if we pass on this house, we will most likely not ever find something, within our budget, that has a comparable indoor.