Love the property / hate the house... Updated Post #138

We have been looking for a new property for several months. We want horse ready, with enough acreage/space to accommodate my husband’s construction & snow removal businesses, and a mother-in-law apartment for my mom.

We are currently considering a property that previously operated as a training & boarding facility. It has 20+ acres, several fenced paddocks, nice indoor & outdoor arenas. It has plenty of room to build a large shop & parking for my husband’s equipment. The property lost their barn to a fire several months ago and is no longer operating. The home on the property hasn’t been well maintained, and needs quite a bit of work. It is also a style that both my husband I dislike (honestly hate isn’t too strong of a word). We would prefer to build a new home on the property and turn the existing house into a MIL apartment for my mother to live in. Unfortunately, a 2nd house isn’t allowed by the city. Splitting the parcel is very expensive, and may not be an option (city requires over 400 feet of road frontage, and it looks like this property has just under 400 feet of road frontage).

I’m trying to think through what our options are.

Option one is that we could tear down the existing house and build a new one. But this seems like a waste – the house is livable, and can be fixed. We just really dislike the layout, and don’t want to live in a house we hate on a property we love.

The city does allow guesthouses, however, the city codes states: “Guesthouses, for purposes of this chapter shall be an accessory building detached from the principal building where accommodations for sleeping are provided, but no kitchen facility provision is made. The use is for persons visiting the occupants of this principal building.” Kitchen is defined by the city as: “Kitchen means a space which contains a sink with counter working space, space for installing cooking and refrigeration equipment, and space for the storage of cooking utensils.”

I’m not sure it makes sense to remove the kitchen from the existing house to classify it as a guesthouse. But it is an option. I suppose my mother could do all of her cooking in my kitchen.

Another option would be to try to classify the house as employee housing. City code states the following for a Commercial Horse Training Facility: “One full-time employee for the horse training facility may reside at the property, including the stable. Living quarters for the employee must meet the standards of the Uniform Building Code”

We had not planned to operate commercially. We had planned on building a smaller, private barn, but would consider taking in 1 or 2 boarders (as company for me to ride with, not as an income producing venture). Reading through the city code, it is not clear what the city considers commercial (and obviously if we move forward with the property I’ll get confirmation from the city).

We could “hire” my mother to sweep the barn or whatever to classify her as an employee, but again, not an optimal solution.

For reference, the property is priced very fairly. A nearby home, currently for sale, with a 1 bedroom MIL apartment in the basement, on 11 acres, no fencing or horse facilities is priced at $300,000 more than what this property is priced at. Another property we looked at in a neighboring community with a house with a 2 bedroom MIL apartment, 8.75 acres, small barn, a couple of fenced paddocks, no indoor or outdoor, no shop, is priced at $130,000 more than this property.

Thoughts? Would you just suck it up and tear the house down and build new? Try to work out one of the other options? Skip this property and keep looking?

Been in your shoes with property shopping and passing on one after the other. It took us YEARS to find just the right place but I’m glad we held out. I would walk away. When you’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it’s not the right property for you.

Well, you could possibly remodel the heck out of the existing home if it has the best location in order to give your MIL a wing of her own with kitchen privileges. I’d place the kitchen/dining at the intersection of the two units, worked well for some friends of ours and the two sides were completely different architecturally. The rest of the property has to be what you want, as in really really want otherwise though, because it sound like you have quite a bit of other stuff to spend money on.

Look at the zoning, and see what the city says about the number of animals, and types of businesses you could have on the property. Just because the current owner ran a barn, then it doesn’t mean that you can on the same property.

I should add the existing house wasn’t built in a great location on the property (water in the basement every year). If we build a new house, we could put the house in a better location.

Property is zoned agricultural and horses/horse facilities are allowed uses.

Keep looking. It’s not your place. Close but no cigar! The right one is out there :slight_smile:

Good grief woman! My house was described as ‘quirky’ by DH before I saw it. I DID NOT CARE. 7 acres, blueberries, Pecan trees, pool, huge shop buildings, run in shed(for ponies) etc, etc…

I live with no tub, 2 showers. Dropped ceiling in kitchen with florescent lights hidden there, wood paneling EVERY.WHERE, some of it WHITE WOOD PANELING. He MADE all the cabinets and cupboards out of some plywood - yellow stained plywood. The space between tiles in kitchen/ hall is close to 2 inches!

No sidewalk to front door, UPS man said
“No one uses your front door”. Upstairs bedroom has a window AC, Cut through the wall to mount! Yes, its piped up there for AC/Heat, but, I DONT KNOW WHY

I love it and Im here to embrace the quirkiness. My horses are happy

OK, I apolgize, I was out of control there for a minute.

If the place otherwise meets your needs, maybe you can do a work-around.
Build a nice house for all of you, a MIL suite off the back maybe.

Or maybe this isnt the right place for you, keep looking.

Good luck to you, I wish you all the best

[QUOTE=allons-y;8802706]
OK, I apolgize, I was out of control there for a minute.[/QUOTE]

lol - honestly your post made me laugh! I do have moments when I think I can live in a crappy house to get the nice indoor. But then I realize, that I’ll spend far more time in the house than I will enjoying the indoor arena.

Building a home with the MIL apartment is an option - it just requires tearing down the existing house, which seems wasteful.

[QUOTE=Kodidog763;8802715]
lol - honestly your post made me laugh! I do have moments when I think I can live in a crappy house to get the nice indoor. But then I realize, that I’ll spend far more time in the house than I will enjoying the indoor arena.

Building a home with the MIL apartment is an option - it just requires tearing down the existing house, which seems wasteful.[/QUOTE]

allons-y’s posts always get a laugh out of me too, in a good way

i say keep moving

you’ll play goldilocks – too warm, too cold – eventually you will find your ‘just right’.

Is there anything in the existing house you can salvage to use in a new one? Or donate to Habitat?

Because if you are really set on the property and can afford to do it, building your own house where you want it will ensure that you still love living there. I did the “love the property, hate the house, will deal with the house later” thing. Ten years along and I was MISERABLE.

Make it your own, or keep looking. Build a small suite for your MIL, including kitchen and laundry, and try to use as much as you can from the existing house.

[QUOTE=Kodidog763;8802715]
Building a home with the MIL apartment is an option - it just requires tearing down the existing house, which seems wasteful.[/QUOTE]

I’d try to meet with a builder and ask what the options are, and how much it would cost. You might be surprised - it might be cheaper to knock down and rebuild on a different site, than to do the renovations that the house needs. Then you would get what you want, and not feel guilty. :slight_smile:

ETA: my friends bought an old farmhouse and had an estimate to renovate it - but things went south after the work began, and a new contractor said that their estimate was way too low for the work needed (hence why their contractor disappeared.) It was cheaper to knock it down and build a bigger house and set it back from the road, so that’s what they did, even though they bought it because they wanted to rehab an old farm house. But when the numbers were tallied…it wasn’t worth it - and the old house was right on the side of the road.

[QUOTE=S1969;8802748]
I’d try to meet with a builder and ask what the options are, and how much it would cost. You might be surprised - it might be cheaper to knock down and rebuild on a different site, than to do the renovations that the house needs. Then you would get what you want, and not feel guilty. :)[/QUOTE]

My husband is a builder, so we are covered there. It would be cheaper to build new than to completely renovate the existing house. But existing house could be made “liveable” (not lovable, lol) much cheaper than building new.

I’m guessing there might be quite a bit that could be salvaged and donated to Habitat for Humanity (honestly I hadn’t even thought about that). At least the house wouldn’t be a complete waste…

Here, houses like that are stripped bare of what someone can use and then the fire department burns them down as a training exercise.
The little bit left is disposed of properly, hauled off or buried.

Then they build the new house, that hopefully will be in a good location and up to today’s way higher standards and code.

All happy all the way around.

I would get some bids from contractors to see if that makes sense with that property, if you love all else in it.

You say the property is a good deal cheaper than comparable properties, are you factoring in the cost of tearing down the house and rebuilding? Add those costs in to this property, add the costs of putting up fencing on the other properties, then look again.

There has to be a reason this property is priced so cheaply, find it.

[QUOTE=Kodidog763;8802715]

Building a home with the MIL apartment is an option - it just requires tearing down the existing house, which seems wasteful.[/QUOTE]

Been there. I know it seems wasteful, but in most situations, tearing down the old house and building new, if that is within your budget, is a vastly better option and will save you so much money in the long run.

I ended up not tearing down, for several reasons, a big one was that given the location and a few other factors, I would have been investing way more than I was ever likely to get out of the property. And, I don’t intend to live here for more than another 5 years or so at the most.

Well now, this is a problem… :wink:

I have a house that I like, but don’t love. I love my property though. I honestly don’t even care about the house, because my family spends so much time outside.

Personally, I’d make it work if the land is that awesome, but I also have come to the conclusion that most people don’t feel the same way, and that’s fine too.

If it was me and the property was perfect, I’d be making plans to remodel the house completely. I’ll be shopping for an acreage next year and I’ve already mentioned to boyfriend that the house isn’t high on my priority list. All I want is 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms and no carpet. I would be quite happy in a modular home, if it meant I could have my horses in my back yard. I have a nice, new house currently and I hate it. I go out of my way to be away from it and I miss the charm of a lived in house. A friend of mine lives with her husband and child in a smaller farm house and she has made that place HOME. I love it there, and I want that for my own.

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8802805]
You say the property is a good deal cheaper than comparable properties, are you factoring in the cost of tearing down the house and rebuilding? Add those costs in to this property, add the costs of putting up fencing on the other properties, then look again.

There has to be a reason this property is priced so cheaply, find it.[/QUOTE]

The property is priced cheaply because it is being sold with the house “as-is” and they want to complete this as quickly as possible. The family has re-located out of state and don’t want to deal with any repairs or do anything to make the house more sale-able. As-is houses are scary for people because it’s hard to know what lurks beneath the surface. My husband is a builder and has actually done some remodeling in this house, so we have a good idea of what we are getting into.

It can also be a challenge to get financing on a house in poor condition. If we can’t get a standard mortgage, we do have the option of using our investment lender to make the purchase. We would then have to refinance after building or remodeling. Not everyone has that option.

I’m not sure where you live in MN or your real budget, but I can make some inferences based on neighbors houses being 300k more and that we’ve done significant shopping for horse places in Duluth and Rural MSP areas in the 250-350k range.

Horse places in this range are more scarce than they were 5 years ago - when the market crashed you could get nice post-2000 home with 2500-3000 sq feet, 10 acres and a horse setup for 220k easy. Now, not so much.

But, if you’re diligent at watching the MLS EVERY DAY they still come up in the 300k+ range several times a year, more often as you go up in price and sometimes even lower if you can catch them before someone else makes an offer.

If you’ve got the coin and you love it love it, sure - knock down the house and build what you want along with a new barn. But, if that stresses the budget, fret not and be patient as long as you have time on your side. It’s far better to buy once and cry once than buy a nightmare or jump on a bargain for the sake of a bargain.