Low front European stalls-- horses jumping out?

[Lucassb]

I love the look of the European stall fronts. My former trainer built a gorgeous barn with them and I was dead set on renovating my barn to match… except that after a short while, I realized that I could not put anything on or near those stall fronts. Not halters, not blankets, not little baskets for fly spray, bell boots, etc…the aisles were always a mess. Sigh.

So I stuck with my full sliders and contented myself with really pretty full brass blanket bars and matching brass halter hangers.

I do have side grills on order though. I like the additional ventilation and the time I spent in FL this winter where my horses really enjoyed the “interaction” of having the grills in the side walls vs. the full walls I have at home convinced me.

[winter]

@mvp

What? Yikes. I believe you, but how TF? So the force they horse generated with that hind foot (a metric crap-ton PSI) stuffed the foot between the bars and bent them a tad? I will consider that. I’m leaning toward the mesh. Do you think you could cut that (or the bars) with a hack saw or sawzall? That “waiting hours for a welder” is another Yikes.

It was absolutely terrible. It was more that the hoof capsule compressed enough and the bars stretched just enough, then everything snapped back to original size and could not get out. These were very thick square bars in one case and round in the other. They were heavy steel, I don’t think a grinder or hacksaw could have got them open. I think they tried that with the first horse. It happened at a barn I was working at in Europe and I only saw the horses in the aftermath since I was off that day that it happened. The other girls described the horror to me and how impossible it was to cut the bars.

[winter]

@Lucassb

I love the look of the European stall fronts. My former trainer built a gorgeous barn with them and I was dead set on renovating my barn to match… except that after a short while, I realized that I could not put anything on or near those stall fronts. Not halters, not blankets, not little baskets for fly spray, bell boots, etc…the aisles were always a mess. Sigh.

So I stuck with my full sliders and contented myself with really pretty full brass blanket bars and matching brass halter hangers.

I do have side grills on order though. I like the additional ventilation and the time I spent in FL this winter where my horses really enjoyed the “interaction” of having the grills in the side walls vs. the full walls I have at home convinced me.

Lucassb, interesting. Even my most mouthy horse rarely dumps his things on the ground, but he has taken a blanket into the stall with him and ground it into his stall…
I love having grills between the stalls, the whole barn is so much more open!

[Lucassb]

@winter

Lucassb, interesting. Even my most mouthy horse rarely dumps his things on the ground, but he has taken a blanket into the stall with him and ground it into his stall…
I love having grills between the stalls, the whole barn is so much more open!

Yep, I am really looking forward to installing the grills into the side walls. Unfortunately for the stall fronts, two of mine spend most of their free time trying to “redecorate” anything left within the reach of their little jaws!

[mvp]

@winter

It was absolutely terrible. It was more that the hoof capsule compressed enough and the bars stretched just enough, then everything snapped back to original size and could not get out. These were very thick square bars in one case and round in the other. They were heavy steel, I don’t think a grinder or hacksaw could have got them open. I think they tried that with the first horse. It happened at a barn I was working at in Europe and I only saw the horses in the aftermath since I was off that day that it happened. The other girls described the horror to me and how impossible it was to cut the bars.

Dude. Just, Dude.

Do you think the mesh would have stopped the hoof from breaking through in the first place?

I’m leaning toward a mesh- rather than barred door, and just limiting that to the stall door. But that 4’ stretch is in the middle of the stall. I can picture a rolling horse hitting the middle of one side of his stall’s walls (or the door) with a hind foot.

[YankeeLawyer]

I am a fairly risk-adverse person but I have to say some of these stories are over the top and I think fairly described as freak circumstances. Horses occasionally get hit by lightening and yet no one would suggest we never turn them out in a pasture.

Regarding bars versus mesh – assuming both options are high quality / sufficient gauge and spacing size, you should be fine with whichever you prefer.

[winter]

@mvp

Dude. Just, Dude.

Do you think the mesh would have stopped the hoof from breaking through in the first place?

I’m leaning toward a mesh- rather than barred door, and just limiting that to the stall door. But that 4’ stretch is in the middle of the stall. I can picture a rolling horse hitting the middle of one side of his stall’s walls (or the door) with a hind foot.

@mvp I could send you pictures of my mesh stalls if you want, they are by Lucas Equine. I can’t imagine a horse even getting a hoof through the mesh in any way, but I guess if they did break through you could saw through the wires easier than bars? Obviously my past experiences influenced my choices. The mesh is very stiff, it has no flexibility at all. I had a violent kicker in one stall (not my own thankfully). The horse kicked so bad it broke out it’s stall window (that had a yoke) but the stall still looks brand new otherwise.

[mvp]

@YankeeLawyer

I am a fairly risk-adverse person but I have to say some of these stories are over the top and I think fairly described as freak circumstances. Horses occasionally get hit by lightening and yet no one would suggest we never turn them out in a pasture.

Regarding bars versus mesh – assuming both options are high quality / sufficient gauge and spacing size, you should be fine with whichever you prefer.

IMO, there is a difference between the lightning strike and horse stuck. If the poor critter is struck dead, I have a different problem than if he is still alive and requires extrication and then might be badly hurt.

I will say that some folks on FB seem more confident in the strength of the mesh. The spaces there are 2" on center, so at least one person is convinced that no shoe could get caught. I’ll betcha a heal of a shoe could get caught.

[YankeeLawyer]

@mvp

IMO, there is a difference between the lightning strike and horse stuck. If the poor critter is struck dead, I have a different problem than if he is still alive and requires extrication and then might be badly hurt.

I will say that some folks on FB seem more confident in the strength of the mesh. The spaces there are 2" on center, so at least one person is convinced that no shoe could get caught. I’ll betcha a heal of a shoe could get caught.

I think you missed my point. The issue is perceived risk versus actual risk. The NYT just had an article this week on how folks (mis)perceive risk https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/13/w…terpreter.html

And yes, the heel of a shoe can get caught in mesh but it is highly unlikely. Mesh is not stronger than bars. Welds are a weak point on any structure and obviously mesh grids are much thinner than bars. That said, I think you would be completely fine with either style if manufactured by a quality shop. Go with the ones you like.

[mvp]

@YankeeLawyer

I think you missed my point. The issue is perceived risk versus actual risk. The NYT just had an article this week on how folks (mis)perceive risk https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/13/w…terpreter.html

And yes, the heel of a show can get caught in mesh but it is highly unlikely. Mesh is not stronger than bars. Welds are a weak point on any structure and obviously mesh grids are much thinner than bars. That said, I think you would be completely fine with either style if manufactured by a quality shop. Go with the ones you like.

I think I did miss the perceived versus actual risk… and then was being snarky and selfish about what the dead vs. dangling horse meant for me, LOL.

And I’m not even sure perceived versus actual (well… actual in the statistical sense) risk is it. Rather, I was thinking about the unpreventable disaster (because you must turn horses out where the lightning is) versus the preventable risk (stall fronts that say, This Way To Hell) for horses.

I was just hoping that the mesh design wouldn’t bend open and then snap back, bear-trap style, as winter described. Of course broken mesh would create the spike on a pastern/bear trap that the smooth bars wouldn’t have…

No failsafe anything, eh?

[fordtraktor]

@mvp

I think I did miss the perceived versus actual risk… and then was being snarky and selfish about what the dead vs. dangling horse meant for me, LOL.

And I’m not even sure perceived versus actual (well… actual in the statistical sense) risk is it. Rather, I was thinking about the unpreventable disaster (because you must turn horses out where the lightning is) versus the preventable risk (stall fronts that say, This Way To Hell) for horses.

I was just hoping that the mesh design wouldn’t bend open and then snap back, bear-trap style, as winter described. Of course broken mesh would create the spike on a pastern/bear trap that the smooth bars wouldn’t have…

No failsafe anything, eh?

I have vertical bars on my doors. They are so, so heavy steel and strong I would be extremely surprised if that would ever happen, but i have been around many stalls I could easily think that would happen. An ordinary galvanized stall? Nope. Wouldn’t do low bars. wouldn’t do cheap mesh either…many barns have field fence turned upside down. No no no.

but a heavy, quality Euro front stall with bars properly installed, that isn’t going to happen. My low bars are like 1” apart, for foals. The upper bars are wider apart, like 2.5”-3”. I would have no fear putting the highest quality and valued horse in them. They are extremely strong. It took 2 people to even lift the 1/3 panels. Solid, solid construction. A kick would do nothing. Makes shipping expensive, but the horses are very safe.

[Bluey]

@mvp

I think I did miss the perceived versus actual risk… and then was being snarky and selfish about what the dead vs. dangling horse meant for me, LOL.

And I’m not even sure perceived versus actual (well… actual in the statistical sense) risk is it. Rather, I was thinking about the unpreventable disaster (because you must turn horses out where the lightning is) versus the preventable risk (stall fronts that say, This Way To Hell) for horses.

I was just hoping that the mesh design wouldn’t bend open and then snap back, bear-trap style, as winter described. Of course broken mesh would create the spike on a pastern/bear trap that the smooth bars wouldn’t have…

No failsafe anything, eh?

We are building our stalls out of that 1/4" rod, 2" x 2" welded wire mesh, same as the better builders use.
Considering all that a horse can get hurt on, that is the least risk of all in our opinion.
Bars very close together, closer than standard, is also safe, as some use for the bottom of stall doors, but then you hardly can see the horse in there if you use that higher up.
Solid is best, but then the horse can’t see out, airflow is questionable, so there is that.

Every one of us has to balance the look they like with how practical and safe that look is, for them.
That is why there are so many different kinds of stalls built and sold out there.