https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstoc…-chrome/287017
Thought you all would have good comments on this.
California Chrome’s dam is Love the Chase by Not of Love. This foal is by the same sire as C-C, Lucky Pulpit. Lucky Pulpit is by Pulpit who is by AP Indy who is by Seattle Slew
Passionforfashion is by Old Fashion (grey/roan) who is by the Unbridled Song (grey/roan) by Unbridled out of the Caro (grey/roan) mare Trolley Song (grey/roan) Caro had a large% of greys IMO a strong influence for getting grey/roan
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Again??? Once was not enough???
This isn’t a gray colt. He may gray out, it’s too hard to tell, but this isn’t a factor of gray. The sire is heterozygous for gray, the dam is not gray, so there’s only a 50% chance this foal will also turn gray. It’s definitely not Roan.
The dam is White (aka dominant white), as is her dam Turf Club. Turf Club is likely a new White mutation, and you can see her foal picture in the image of her dam, Deebrand, on pedigreequery.
This presentation is visually similar to that of the Puchilingui line of White, but unlike that White, most likely this foal will become all white with time, as did his dam, and probably her dam.
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Sorry, I wasn’t trying to be snarky, nothing personal. You,most likely by mistake incorrectly titled your original post “Passionforfashion dam of California Chrome”
I didn’t know when you were going to check back, pick up on the mistake. Which would have misinformed a lot of people reading it.
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The above was not really my point.I was merely pointing out there was a high probability of getting the desired color. as the breeder stated. Based on knowing the family, top and bottom. The TB industry does not breed for color. The Jockey is very reluctant to register a horse white or black without one of their representatives inspecting the horse.
I didn’t go into the dam’s side of the equation due to lack of time. She traces back to the Axe through his son Relaunch. This is also a steady eddy source of “grey”. TB breeding does not break down the various “colors” of grey other than including “roan”.
Having bred to both sire lines of this cross. Know, have followed/seen the produce of both. One is almost guaranteed to breed a “grey” out of the line/s. I have seen very young one from these lines that are as close to “white” was one can get but not white enough to be registered as such. The stallion Trust N Luck got foals that were very colorful also
Considering the breeder sent the mare from NY to Ca to breed to the inexpensive Lucky Pulpit suggests to me he was going more for a “guarantee” of color than race performance.
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The owner/breeder was going for (dominant) white. Gray had no bearing on the equation. He was looking for a White (genetically White, W, not the “white” of a gray G) mare, and wanted to breed more White horses. It’s got nothing to do with gray. All this color is strictly due to the White dam. It’s impossible to tell from this picture whether the foal will also turn gray. My guess is no, just from the lack of “full saturation” of his little bit of chestnut color showing but it’s really too little to tell for sure.
The sire of this colt is only Gg, heterozygous for gray. There’s a 50/50 chance each of his breeding to non-gray mares of producing a gray foal - not any “almost guarantee”
It wouldn’t matter who he bred to - the color was coming from the mare. And W is very unpredictable in its presentation. This mare could have easily produced a nearly solid foal, or one with normal but amplified markings.
When it comes to gray, all that matters is the immediate parents. There can be grays all over the place in the pedigree, but if both parents are non-gray, no gray can be produced. If 1 parent is only Gg (gray, but hetero) and the other is gg (not gray at all), it’s only a 50% chance of gray. If both are Gg then it’s 75% chance of gray.
Gg x Gg is the only “almost guarantee” at 75% of a gray. The next step is 1 parent being GG, in which case it’s guaranteed all offspring will be gray.
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I got my parents mixed up, sorry - reversed them in my head.
The sire is not gray.
The dam is possibly gray, with a gray sire who is Gg. Everything above still stands. Only 50/50 chance of the foal being gray. The mare is either gg (not gray) or Gg, since she has a non-gray parent (gg) as well as a hetero gray parent (Gg).
The owner was still going for White, not gray.
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I’ve seen this happen occasionally with Arabians. The correct term for it escapes me at the moment, but I’ll do some digging and post what I find, here.
Cute foal, btw.
Arabians also have W15 and, I think, W20. Probably more that we haven’t identified, too.
If this colt is TRULY white…he will have pink skin…a gray has black skin…a white horse will not turn gray IMO! My riding horse was 100% white with pink skin…he was full brother to our Puchi’s Rambo stallion…obviously loud chestnut and white…JC registered both horses as “Gray or Roan…no white markings”!!! JB here on COTH solved/explained “our” puzzle years ago…The Puchilingui horses are Dominant White #5 gene…They are NOT gray.
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Well, grays have whatever color skin they were born with 
A White horse or max Sabino, who is also gray will still have pink skin. A double dilute who is also gray will have pink skin. But a non-dilute, or single dilute who grays will indeed have the dark skin. You just won’t see a White or max sabino gray out, because there’s nothing to lighten. The double dilutes are very tricky, but sometimes in the early stages you can see clues. In the end, they do look different - the double dilutes will have the double dilute light eyes but the white hair of a grayed out gray.
And yes, Arabians have W19 as well as W15. I think it’s just those 3 - 3, 15, 19. At least, that’s all that’s identified.
White is a KIT mutation, and KIT mutates a LOT, which is why it’s not that uncommon to see new spontaneous White foals popping up.
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From what I understand, this is the explanation. Here is the link where I asked the color question-
http://forums.arabianbreeders.net/index.php?/topic/62512-color-question/
The tranquilo poster has it right. It’s got nothing to do with anyone other than the foal’s dam, who got it from her dam, who is the original mutation for that particular White. White is a mutation at the KIT location, and KIT is the most common source of white spotting patterns in all sorts of animals - mice, dogs, even cattle, and more, not just horses.
Those patterns/mutations also include Tobiano and Roan. Well, Tobiano isn’t exactly ON KIT, but it’s close enough and is linked that it really is “on” KIT.
And KIT just happens to be a pretty “unstable” gene which mutates a lot.
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