Lunging & retraining

[Pohney]

I debated whether to post this on the dressage or eventing forum, as the question is dressage specific but the horse is intended for eventing. So while I would like to create a dressage powerhouse, the reality is that we are asking much more basic questions at this point.

I am taking on a project that is coming from the western - specifically barrel racing - world. The mare is wound TIGHT and appears to primarily know how to RUN. Under saddle and on the lunge, she basically just churns as fast as her legs will go at whatever gait was specified and has no concept of how to use herself. I have some plans to start building relaxation under saddle - though am certainly open to tips! - but I do not have as many ideas for retraining her on the lunge line, and would like to have that as an available tool. My current plans are to work on a short (8-10’) line and start with a lot of transitions and introducing additional tools (side reins, potentially double lunge, etc) as the transitions solidify. Any other ideas for retraining a horse to work properly on the lunge line when all they know how to do is run around like an idiot?

[visorvet]

For my green OTTBs that do this I find the round pen very useful for starting them. No line to mess with and you can control speed and direction very well with your body. Once the horse gets the basics down I make a point to stop/turn them rather than let them continue on whenever they lose their heads and rush around. The first iteration can be somewhat stressy, and sweaty, as until they realize there is a method to my madness they may become frustrated. Within a session or two they realize how much more work this is and become more thoughtful, and by the time I switch to a lunge line that stage has simply passed. I don’t introduce the surcingle or side reins until this has been established. Occasional horses don’t seem to generalize very well - these come along fine in the round pen but return to racing when switched to a lunge line. These ones require a bit more effort but the same principle can be applied with body language, or simply directing them into a wall for the less sensitive and clever ones. More time and learning to relax during work is helpful for those, and occasionally I get a horse that never really does well on the lunge line until their under-saddle work has taken them to a similar stage of understanding.

[Foxtail]

I used to lease a horse just like this! What I actually did a lot of before we started to work on lunging was riding on the buckle in an indoor arena. Every time he started to break into that tense little trot I would gently guide him into a volte with my seat and a neck rein that was small enough that he had to go back to a walk to keep his balance. I didn’t so much as think about picking up the rein for a couple weeks. This worked really well for him, and when we started trot work I just repeated the process to get him to stop racing at the trot. I also did a lot of work in hand to reschool his mouth. And once he was mentally decompressed we started lunge work.

[gardenie]

Help her out by getting someone good to work on her body (equine massage, chiro, acupuncture) so it can start going in a more correct physical attitude while you do something completely different from the norm like TTEAM (Linda Tellington Jones) work with her. It may be that she had some bad round penning which is similar to lunging and she is doing what she was taught. Just a thought.

[fordtraktor]

Lots of transitions are often a good idea but I will say that on a hot horse like this, it may very well cause them to blow their top.

I have done several hot horses including former barrel racers, and relaxation was the #1 agenda item for a long time. Including long walks on trails, trotting around the arena just bringing the horse back every time it hops into a canter (at first, sometimes every other stride!) then back on a loose rein. no hard corrections ever – soft, gentle, slow, reassuring. I tend to sing to these horses a fair amount.

I had to resist doing a lot of transitions with my former barrel horse for his entire career or he’d still work himself up into a tense mess.

Now my lazy TB? I am constantly doing transitions with him to keep him forward and sharp.

If the horse runs around like a lunatic on the longe I wouldn’t longe for a while until he calms down a bit. When I did, it would be at the walk first for a long time, then gradually introduce the trot, and I wouldn’t canter for a long time.

[merrygoround]

On the longe, I would go to side reins very quickly, adjusted at a length where when standing, they are barely into play. Start your circle small, and use a quiet steadying voice. Eaassyyyy, eaaasssyyy, but gradually widen the circle, if she races off, use your whoaaaa voice, and bring the circle smaller, repeat, repeat until she understands that racing off is NOT the order of the day. It may be a very frustrating time but with luck your patience should pay off. The smarter she is, the easier it should be. A lot of turn out is good for these horses.

[Scribbler]

I see lots of people putting side reins on a hot horse to try to keep them under control on the longe line. Very bad idea, and dangerous. You shouldn’t be using any extra aids until the horse is moving out calmly and is ready to be trained.

I also see lots of people effectively training their horses to bolt on the longe line. People who don’t want to let their horse have turn out because it’s “dangerous” will let them bolt and buck on the longe to get the wiggles out. They are effectively training their horses that longe time is play time. If my horse is that hot, then I give her turnout to run it off, and longe as part of training, where she needs to be listening to me.

Maybe you don’t canter her at all on the longe for a while, just make it be walk/trot transitions?

In-hand lateral work at the walk can help her start carrying herself.

[ladyj79]

No side reins.

Honestly I wouldn’t even lunge now at all. It will just make this hot tense horse more so.

Just ride. Hack out if possible. Make everything about relaxing.

[runNjump86]

Also what is she eating? All the barrel races I used to know fed their horses jet fuel.

I would give her some “let down” time, similar to an OTTB. A week, two weeks, just time to relax. Definitely have someone out to do body work. Evaluate her diet and turnout, then start slow. I agree with others saying not to lunge this horse for awhile.

[visorvet]

Not in direct response to your lunge question, OP, but I wanted to express a counterpoint on the training of hot horses - if they are truly hot (versus just very forward) I don’t believe that you need to achieve a state of zen relaxation before the real training can begin. On the contrary, I believe that these horses relax more and better when they are simply put into training immediately and held accountable like any other horse. In other words, you can train them from within that hotness, and you don’t need to cut them an excessive amount of slack or lower your training expectations simply because they are hot or tense. Of course some accommodations for their mindset are needed and relaxation is still an important goal, though what actually works horse to horse is highly variable - what winds one up may relax another, so experimentation with that is great. And of course the mind-quieting methods described earlier, hacking out, layoff for the competition horse that is brain-fried, etc. - that’s all excellent stuff. But many hot-horse riders take too darn long to just get on with it, spending months trying to relax a horse that may never volunteer it, at least in the short term, and losing valuable training time in the process. I believe that many of these horses learn to relax and connect with the rider/trainer as a CONSEQUENCE of their training and not as a prerequisite to that training. They certainly require your A game in terms of timing and training skill, but on the up side they are usually much quicker to learn than a duller horse.

[fordtraktor]

I don’t totally disagree with you, visorvet, but you have to prioritize with a hot horse. Much more important to teach the horse to deal if you put your leg on and take a light contact than to do transitions which can just aggravate the issue. The problems most people create with hot horses is behind the leg coddling. Longeing in side reins? A significant portion of truly hot horses will panic and flip over. I have seen it happen when people rush that aspect.

[Pohney]

Hi all,

Thank you for all the thoughts so far! Certainly something to work with. After spending a bit more time with the mare today, I think I am going to plan to get one her tomorrow and save lunging for another day. I don’t want her learning - or to be continuing to reinforce - that the lunge line is a space for playing and hijinks, and think I will possibly be better off reinforcing the aids under saddle and then working to transfer those to the lunge. I’ll be doing plenty of ground and in-hand work with her, but think I’ll be trying to just create a basic under saddle routine as if I were starting to educate a very, very green-broke horse. Hopefully creating consistency and a standard set of consistently enforced expectations will get us off to a good start. I think the lay off ideas are great, except that she is already coming off of a very long vacation - my understanding is that the only thing she has learned previously is how to get out of work

[merrygoround]

I can understand your reservations about side reins. However properly applied, and attached just before sending forward, outside rein first then inside, instantly sending forward,seldom creates a problem. But then no horse should be led about or let stand in side reins.

These horses do take someone with a bit of mileage, and a lot of patience.

[lucegoose]

Why do you want to lunge? I don’t see it doing anything productive for this type of situation, honestly.

If you want a horse to learn that riding can be done at a quieter pace, without so much stress/drama, I would start with ponying her off of a steady-eddie and going on long walks. Then I’d start riding her on long walks with the steady-eddie as a buddy. Like, hour+ walks. To the point she thinks it’s the most boring thing in the world. It will also help her develop more appropriate muscling for your long-term goals.

“Groundwork” is never a bad idea, but that’s primarily transitions, walking, leading, etc, not chasing in circles that “lungeing” often becomes.

[TSWJB]

I could not turn my new young horse out because he got injured. He cut his face open and I needed the injury to heal properly. So I was lunging. And I will not allow him to be crazy on the lunge line. He is very good tempered but after being inside for basically 2 months he started wanting to buck every now and then. So I researched and I found my answer. Go review Clinton Anderson videos. You might have to spin thru some of his advertisements but he is totally awesome. I am using his methods now and my horse is being really good on the lunge line! And I finally got him outside so hoping to continue on with training in a very positive way. I highly recommend you watch Clinton Anderson videos!

[Ganesha]

Pohney, how big is the horse, how tall are you, and how strong is your core? Is the horse dangerous to ride, or just hot/fast?

I’ve ridden a couple of horses like this - they were both small (15.1/15.2 ish) Quarter horses who used to run barrels. I did a lot of walk / trot transitions, and during stretches of trot, worked at not letting them “take me” along at that frantic trot by resisting with my upper body/posting rather than posting to match them, as you would with a normal horse. I tried to stay out of there mouth as let my core do the work.

This might not work if you have a big, powerful horse or are small yourself. I think it just depends on a lot of variables whether that works with a particular horse, but I got those two accustomed to trotting at a good rhythm, then worked on the walk, then lastly the canter.