Lutalyse Question?

[Stitch_In_Time]

This isn’t quite a breeding question, but I thought you guys would have more experience with lutalyse than those on the Horse Care section.

Due to some behavior issues both in the stall and under saddle I had a repro exam done on my mare last week. The vet found a 50mm persistent follicle on her left ovary and she was definitely sore when the vet palpated it. She recommended that we give her an injection of lutalyse, and then put her on progesterone for a bit. We held off on the injection because she had just received her vaccines, and it was also 30 degrees out and she didn’t want her to sweat in the cold weather.

The vet is coming out on Wednesday to give her the injection. I’ve done some reading about lutalyse, and I know that it is going to cause sweating and possibly colic-like symptoms. The information that I haven’t been able to find is how long it is going to take for the persistent follicle to regress? How long before she is out of heat and back to normal?

She is understandably very cranky under saddle right now so I have just been keeping her in light work until this issue is resolved. I’m hoping that she gets some quick relief from the lutalyse, but this is new territory for me.

The good news…vet says she has an excellent uterus should I ever want to breed her, lol. :lol:

[Laurierace]

The protocol now won’t cause any sweating or cramping, the micro doses do the trick and the horse never seems to notice. Make sure she gets .02 not 2ccs. She will need 2 to 3 micro doses.

[RyTimMick]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8563453]
The protocol now won’t cause any sweating or cramping, the micro doses do the trick and the horse never seems to notice. Make sure she gets .02 not 2ccs. She will need 2 to 3 micro doses.[/QUOTE]

Laurierace is right about the micro doses, but not all vets follow this protocol. You should make the suggestsion to your vet, as they may not know.

Tim

[Stitch_In_Time]

I’ve read about the micro dosing. I’m not sure what protocol the vet plans on using, but she did mention the sweating side effect so I’m assuming that she is planning on giving the full dose. Like I said, this is a new issue for me since I don’t have any breeding experience, I wasn’t sure if there was a reason that the micro doses are not appropriate in this situation? I’ll ask her about it on Wednesday.

[Sugarbrook]

When there is an alternative method to give this medication with no side effects I cannot imagine your vet not wanting to do this way. I hate the cramping and the micro doses give no problem whatsoever .

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=Sugarbrook;8563560]
When there is an alternative method to give this medication with no side effects I cannot imagine your vet not wanting to do this way. I hate the cramping and the micro doses give no problem whatsoever .[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with everyone else. Now that prostaglandin (Lutalyse is a brand name) microdosing has been found to work just as successfully as a full dose without the side effects, it is kind of cruel to give a mare a full whopping dose!

We’ve also had several mares who have developed a persistent follicle and just gave a microdose of prostaglandin over 2-3 days to help resolve the issue.

[Stitch_In_Time]

Another question out of curiosity. How long can a persistent follicle hang on, and can a mare resolve one on her own without hormonal intervention?

We noticed a behavior change in this mare all the way back in November(Complicated set of circumstances including small paddock rest, and sharing a fence line with a very studdish gelding). It started with wood chewing in her stall, and progressed over time to her throwing herself against the stall wall (within the past few weeks). I wasn’t riding her back in November because of a splint fracture or I probably would have picked up on the issue much faster. Is it possible that she has had this follicle that long?

ETA: I will discuss the micro doses with the vet, I don’t want to cause any more discomfort for my poor mare. Thanks for the info!

[mareslave]

known repro vets who don’t give a [bleep] if mare is cramping

[QUOTE=Sugarbrook;8563560]
When there is an alternative method to give this medication with no side effects I cannot imagine your vet not wanting to do this way. I hate the cramping and the micro doses give no problem whatsoever .[/QUOTE]

I’ve heard tons of vets dismiss my concerns about lutylase, especially as I’ve seen mares damage their corneas writhing around cramping. My standard for selecting vets for repro work now includes question “do you use estrumate or lutylase?”

I’ve also had repro vets refuse to allow banamine under the pretext that it’s going to interfere with follicle.

If you can get your vet to micro dose or use estrumate, it will be more pleasant and might resolve in 48 hours. However, there’s always an outlyer who requires a second series of micro doses.

[Cindy_s_Warmbloods]

Just wanted to mention that ovarian tumors can cause a drastic change in behaviour in a mare as well.

[Stitch_In_Time]

[QUOTE=Cindy’s Warmbloods;8564376]
Just wanted to mention that ovarian tumors can cause a drastic change in behaviour in a mare as well.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I specifically asked the vet if there was any possibility that it was a tumor. She said no tumor, just a persistent follicle.

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=mareslave;8564130]
I’ve heard tons of vets dismiss my concerns about lutylase, especially as I’ve seen mares damage their corneas writhing around cramping. My standard for selecting vets for repro work now includes question “do you use estrumate or lutylase?”

If you can get your vet to micro dose or use estrumate, it will be more pleasant and might resolve in 48 hours. However, there’s always an outlyer who requires a second series of micro doses.[/QUOTE]

It needs to be said that Estrumate is a prostaglandin, as is Lutalyse. Estrumate has the potential to cause the same negative side effects as Lutalyse if given in a big enough dose. I don’t know if things have changed in the last few years, but Estrumate was only labeled for cattle use and is more expensive than Lutalyse. Either one is perfectly fine and I wouldn’t judge a vet by whether they use one or the other.

[Laurierace]

I had one vet who didn’t know anything about the micro doses and wasn’t interested in learning. She was a fill in for my regular vet so no point in arguing. I told her I had to leave and didn’t want the mare left alone after receiving the dose in case she colicked so she left the 2ccs with me to give her when I was going to be around to watch her. I drew the .02ccs out of that syringe and gave her the microsdoses myself. This was being done to terminate a pregnancy and she checked open with no discomfort at the check up.

[Anne]

It is not my usual custom to provide doses on the internet, but 0.02ml is not the correct amount even for a microdose. An AHF may require more than two consecutive doses, and not all AHFs respond to this treatment. Sometimes you just have to wait for them to go away on their own.

[Stitch_In_Time]

Just wanted to update.

The mare received a 1.5 ml injection of Estrumate on Wednesday. She had a small amount of sweating, and showed no discomfort, just kept munching hay as usual. She received a progesterone injection yesterday, and will have another in 2 weeks, then we will allow her to cycle normally and see what happens. She was greatly improved under saddle yesterday, I’m not declaring her cured after one ride, but I’m really hopeful that we have her straightened out now.

[FancyIllusions]

I really wish I had known about the micro-dose. I’ll have to ask my vet about that. It’s terrible watching my poor mare go through that.

[HobbleCreek]

I know this is an old thread, but do any of you have a reference to any studies on the effectiveness of the microdose? I’d rather not put my mare through the discomfort of the 2 cc dose, but I’d also like to go to my vet with something more than, “I read on an internet forum . . …”

[Daventry]

HobbleCreek, your best place to locate a study on the subject is to ask on the EquineRepro group on Facebook. There are some excellent veterinarians and reproduction specialists on there that will be able to locate the information you are looking for.

[JB]

@HobbleCreek

I know this is an old thread, but do any of you have a reference to any studies on the effectiveness of the microdose? I’d rather not put my mare through the discomfort of the 2 cc dose, but I’d also like to go to my vet with something more than, “I read on an internet forum . . …”

https://thehorse.com/152435/prostaglandins-reducing-drug-costs-and-side-effects/

[crosscreeksh]

@Laurierace

The protocol now won’t cause any sweating or cramping, the micro doses do the trick and the horse never seems to notice. Make sure she gets .02 not 2ccs. She will need 2 to 3 micro doses.

THIS!! I stopped doing full “recommended” doses years ago. I’ve had NO reactions using micro doses, but get the same results!!