Lyme in 2022 - (things that only happen when you list a horse for sale)

[libotome]

I know, another Lyme thread. I just started a new job and have a second job, life is demanding. I decided to try to be preventative and list the more easy to place of my two - a draftx/friesian sport gelding for sale. About a month into the glory that is selling a horse, he starts to act weird. First, he is taking off with me in the arena, then, his stifles are locking up, then, he starts to spook at this that and the other thing. We went to a hunter pace a month ago and I ended up pulling a few ticks off of him. Unfortunately he is black so many of these I missed until well into attachment so I already had Lyme on my mind. With the stifle stuff going on I decide it was time to pull his ad. The final straw (because of course this coincides with moving barns and big changes) was that he was mean to the farrier. Nervous pooping the whole time. This horse was owned by a farrier before me and I kept him hod shod over summer so this was weird. I was hopeful we were dealing with Lyme, and sure enough we seem to be. The CSF fluid collection yielded the early stage antibodies >7000. Phewph.

We are on doxy for the next month, what I am wondering is for those of you that have dealt with this, how long into treatment did you wait before continuing riding or training? Was it just when the symptoms subsided? His have been intermittent so that would be a tough gauge for me. The spookiness would work though, this horse I had joked had “one spook in him a month, max” before he got sick, and in the last three weeks he’s been a snort machine.

Picture of my handsome boy that took it a little too far to ensure he isn’t being sold

[skipollo]

My horse tested chronic positive on the Cornell test (3700) in May 2019. We did a month of doxy. By week three he was a completely different horse. I never fully stopped riding him during treatment, but I didn’t jump him because that’s where a lot of his blow ups would happen. He went from coming completely unglued trotting a crossrail to successfully competing a few weeks later. The change was incredible.

I did do another month of doxy in December 2019 because I thought he was feeling symptomatic again, but looking back with the information and new knowledge I have now, I think his hinds were the source of that issue and it wasn’t a Lyme relapse.

I did have him re tested in March 2021, and his #s were negative, so his immune system is doing all of the things. I honestly don’t even really think about his Lyme anymore.

It’s not a death sentence as long as you keep ahead of it and treat it as quickly as you can.

[ozone_joan]

It might be a good idea to back off on the riding and do groundwork with him while he is being treated with Doxy. Sometimes it is better to gauge how they are feeling from the ground. I would also supplement with lots of vitamin E, Choline, Magnesium and vitamin C.

When my horse had Lyme, he was treated with Minocycline. Supposedly more effective than Doxy. I retested about 6 months later (what the vet recommends), and his titer was even higher! UGH! We then tried a course of the injectable antibiotics, and after that, his levels started to come down.

Lyme is tricky. If it’s chronic, meaning they have had the disease for quite some time, you may have to bring in bigger guns to treat it. Hopefully with you horse, you caught it in the beginning stages and the Doxy will knock it down.

[libotome]

Oh interesting re: choline I’ll have to find a good source of it for him. I did up his vitamin e as soon as the neurological test was done just as a precaution. Magnesium is likely at a good range with the forage he gets.

Thank you both for your replies, I’m hopeful he makes a nice clean recovery but he’s ensured that he’ll be with me for quite a while while I monitor this - I’ve got a few friends in the NE that manage chronic Lyme.

Good to know Skipollo! Ransom is certainly one to lose fitness fast so I would like to believe we can hit the trails with him in a few weeks to help prevent any atrophy. We’ll see how he does!

[ozone_joan]

Google ‘Choline for Horses’. ABC company makes it. Choline helps with neurotransmitter function.
I also live in New England. It is VERY common here.

[Posting_Trot]

Very cute horse!

I think every horse reacts somewhat differently, and that may partly be a result of how long they were infected before being diagnosed and treated.

I had a TB mare who had lyme three or possibly four times over a span of 14 years; or maybe she had it once and it never cleared fully and subsequent times were relapses. It’s impossible to know. I do know that it was likely at least a year after she started showing some symptoms that she finally was diagnosed. Her initial symptoms were a very slight hind end lameness that didn’t resolve with various arthritis treatments. When I raised the issue of lyme initially, the vet I used at the time kind of pooh-poohed it (this was almost 20 years ago).

Anyway, I don’t mean to be so depressing. I do think that vets typically take lyme a lot more seriously now, certainly in New England where I’m located. And I think that makes the prognosis better.

But, I’ll add this: you should disclose his bout with lyme to prospective buyers, and that may well scare a few buyers away.

[candyappy]

He is cute and lovable.

The things they will do to stay where they are happy

I hope he gets back to his normal self soon and you can find a way to keep him. He obviously is very happy with you!

[libotome]

Thank you. He is a happy boy that is for sure. Three days ago (four days into treatment) he galloped up to the gate and was his usual self in hand. Phewph!!!

For the sake of follow through on this thread - I think I will give him another week no riding and then start back with low impact trail work under saddle. That will be approximately 2 weeks into the 4 weeks of doxy. I do think we caught it relatively early based on his numbers so that may play a role into how quickly he has turned around. Not sure. First time treating Lyme for me.

[Laurierace]

I don’t know anyone who treats with doxy anymore so can’t help you with that timeline. My mare started headshaking a couple of years ago so the vet came and checked everything we could think of including pulling a Lyme test. When that came back positive I knew we had to treat it but didn’t think it was in any way related to the headshaking. I was very pleasantly surprised when she started improving after a couple of days of minocycline treatment and was completely gone before she was finished.

I have since learned my lesson that Lyme can cause just about any symptom so any time I notice anything irregular with her I add a Lyme test to the diagnostics. So far she has been negative every time since then but I still feel better making sure.

[Janet]

@Laurierace

I don’t know anyone who treats with doxy anymore so can’t help you with that timeline.

What do you use instead of doxy?

[Laurierace]

Minocycline

[awaywego]

I’m with @Laurierace - I don’t use doxy either. in my experience, doxycycline doesn’t really clear Lyme like minocycline does. My preference is to start with oxy-tetracycline and then a month of minocycline. I think doxycycline sets a horse up for a recurrence/relapse. This is my completely unscientific and unprofessional opinion - just my experience!

[JB]

Having just had my mare Dx with Lyme (OSPF 119,999 ) I’ve been doing my own purposeful research (along with my vet) and while IV oxytet is preferred, when it comes to mino vs doxy, mino has at least a 2x higher oral absorption than doxy does, so is the preferred oral medication now, so that’s why doxy is falling out of favor for oral treatment

[libotome]

I’ve known some folks that have had success with doxy and so I’ll keep my fingers crossed we caught it early enough for it to help. Good to know about those other options in the future though should we have a relapse. For those that are familiar with treatment and are re testing, are you re testing with the blood or spinal fluid?

[Janet]

@Laurierace

Minocycline

Interesting.

5 - 10 or so years ago, one of my horses had Lyme, and was treated with Minocycline.

In 2020 I, myself, had Lyme and was treated with doxy. I asked about minocycline and was told (by both my GP and the infectious disease specialist) that the latest research showed that doxy was the preferred treatment.

So I asked my vet about it. He said that, at the time of my horse’s Lyme, there was a shortage of doxy (something to do with soldiers in the Iraq war needing it), which had made the price exorbitant. He said that if both were available at a reasonable price, doxy was preferred to minocycline.

[Weezer]

I kept riding my horse all the way through treatment, but he was a partially retired trail horse, so it wasn’t exactly intense activity. His energy level remained low for a few months after treatment and when I mentioned it to the vet, she said doxy can sometimes lower white blood cell count - that would have been nice to know going in. I didn’t treat that with anything, but he started perking up over time. If I were doing this with a horse in training, I would pay close attention to cues from him (as you are clearly doing!) and maybe pull blood if he seemed to still be a bit low energy after about week 8 from start of doxy.

[Laurierace]

Why would you test spinal fluid at all let alone for the retest?

[awaywego]

I recently had a conversation about oxy-tet vs mino vs doxycline with a New Bolton vet. For whatever it is worth, she told me the data is that oxy-tet (iv) and minocycline are considered equivalent (or whatever scientific term she used) and both have better bioavailability than doxycycline. They also don’t really believe in Lyme at NBC - something like that - so…

Holy crap, @JB, that is a high number.

[JB]

@Laurierace

Why would you test spinal fluid at all let alone for the retest?

Previous and ongoing research has shown that the Equine Lyme Multiplex Assay can identify antibodies to B. burgdorferi in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) to confirm neuroborreliosis in horses and to distinguish it from other causes of neurologic disease. The diagnosis is supported by clinical findings, a lymphocytic pleocytosis in the CSF and the identification of antibodies to Borrelia antigens that are locally produced in neural tissues10,16. The latter diagnostic approach requires a comparison of serum and CSF fluid from the same horse. Previous assays were rarely able to detect the overall relatively low Borrelia -specific antibody concentrations in CSF. The Lyme Multiplex Assay can detect much lower amounts of antibodies to Osp antigens and precisely quantify them in CSF. For horses with neurological signs, a serum and CSF sample should be obtained at the same time and submitted together.

Lyme Disease Multiplex Testing for Horses | Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine

@awaywego

Holy crap, @JB, that is a high number.

Yeah, I did a double-take, then a freak out, then another look, then a real freak out, and now am in full research mode and running down the most cost-effective minocycline, which so far appears to be from Chewy, but also going to try to see what Sam’s has to offer.

@awaywego

For whatever it is worth, she told me the data is that oxy-tet (iv) and minocycline are considered equivalent

That makes me feel better about not being able to do the oxy

[JB]

@JB

Having just had my mare Dx with Lyme (OSPF 119,999

soooo apparently my brain insisted on adding another 9 to all that, despite me looking at the number SEVERALY times. 11,999, NOT 119,999