Though I do know that it was formulated for use in dogs, not horses - some vets swear by it.
Thoughts?
It’s hard to say that the vaccine protects horses, as just because a horse is vaccinated and doesn’t get it, out in the real world, doesn’t prove anything.
There are some studies which show that horses can have a positive response to the canine vaccine, but AFAIK there haven’t been challenge studies to prove that the response actually protects them.
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/366…onse-in-horses
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Thanks – the link was helpful! I’m actually surprised I hadn’t seen that article before, I read The Horse on a regular basis.
The vaccine isn’t a 100% even for dogs. Both my vaccinated dogs have both been sick with lyme disease 2 years in a row. They maybe didn’t get as sick if they hadn’t been vaccinated, but fact is they got sick,even vaccinated.
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That’s a can of worms! Not everyone agrees!
I had a horse get West Nile and he had been vaccinated against it two years in a row!
None of my vets I’ve used over the years recommend it. Mainly because it’s not designed for use in horses and therefor no studies that prove it’s usefulness.
I didn’t know there was a vaccine. I think it would be worth the risk of not working. Lyme is pernicious and recurring, even after antibiotic treatment, and the thought of myself or any pets contracting it has always terrified me. Once your horse has it, you’d never really know whether they’re feeling poorly because of its recurrence. Probably need to test for it every year or so to be sure. And they’re so exposed to ticks. The cases I’ve heard of were horses that were trail ridden. Not sure whether there are as many deer ticks (little tiny guys that you won’t see on your horse) in fields, though they’re said to be in high grass. You just can’t find them and pull them off, like the big itchy ones they come in with.
No vaccine is 100% effective. Some are more effective than others. The good thing about even those with relatively poor efficacy, like PHF, is that if/when the horse does contract the disease, symptoms are at least reduced. That doesn’t always mean they’ll survive - horses vaccinate for EEE can still (rarely) contract it and die. A lot of that has to do with each individual’s immune response. Not every individual will raise the maximum response possible.
If you have a horse who reacts to vaccines, and as a result, give preventive bute or banamine, studies have shown that can reduce the immune response, so be really careful about doing that.
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Some interesting responses. I can certainly see why would be hard to measure its true effectiveness!
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Vaccines which get approved by the FDA have to meet some level of efficacy standard, unless it’s an “emergency” vaccine, in which case it only has to prove safety. If it’s deemed safe, and then approved, it can be revoked for not being effective enough. That’s what happened with the EPM vaccine. Given that the PHF vaccine is only about 75% effective, I can only imagine how real-world ineffective the EPM vaccine was. OR, maybe the PHF vaccine is allowed to be so relatively ineffective because it’s known there are multiple strains, only 1 of which is affected by the vaccine.
Lyme is really tricky, and it’s turning out to be trickier by the day it seems. Horses can test negative but have it. I did read something fairly recently which all but proved that Lyme can hide out in parasites in the brain, which is just creepy as hell :eek: So it’s difficult to get enough horses who can be PROVEN to have Lyme, in order to prove the vaccine works because of being unable to infect the unvaccinated.
Makes sense, thanks JB!
And yikes. :no: Lyme disease is a scourge. One of my students’ horses has had it in the past; was treated, improved - then about 6 weeks ago started having confusing symptoms, a bit of rotating lameness, etc. The vet suspected a tick-borne illness (didn’t do a lameness eval?, but this vet is a little unconventional), drew blood and had it tested: negative for everything.
This same horse was tested for Lyme last summer, came back negative, the vet told my student that “the test results for Lyme are unreliable.” So - what you say would seem to confirm this - but how to measure the “failure rate” of the test??
VERY complicated. And parasites in the brain?!? EEK! Ugh.
Anyway, the vet put the mare on Doxy and she’s now better, but then again Doxy has a general anti-inflammatory effect, so…
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So damn creepy
https://canlyme.com/2016/05/19/lyme-…rain-diseases/
Obviously that is in people, but why not horses?
Lyme itself can settle in the brain. Can settle any old where. Cause permanent damage to the heart. HATE it!
Also – I’ve learned there are a couple more tick-borne diseases that affect at least humans. Maybe horses, too.
:no:
My special fantastic vet treats lyme with Doxy and a round of Marquis. A vet that works for Merial was telling with us how effective the treatment is and how they have found Marquis to help is so many horses with Lyme as an off label use. I have seen miracles happen with Marquis, with show horses that just blossomed after receiving the drug. No idea what was actually wrong with them but it was a shot in the dark for them being not quite as alert and “happy” as they should be. We assumed some type of tick disease causing soreness or something since they all go out and ticks are common in NC.
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Our farm is located in prime Lyme country. With as many as 50+ horses on it at times over the last 15 years it has never been an issue.
I have had extensive conversations with some of the leading researchers in the field. 1, there is NO accurate test for Lyme. 2, It is very difficult to come up with one and “1 treatment” protocol because they have found lyme bacteria is multifaceted. It would take a boat load of research money and time.
This is my simplistic understanding and explanation. That being said, based on the above coming up with a very effective vaccine would be very difficult. We have been told we can vaccinate if we want but it has limited value.
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That is fascinating, and I wonder if it has to do with the potential for the Lyme nasties to hide out in parasites.
“treats lyme with Doxy and a round of Marquis”
This has been a standard “treatment” for a number of years. To the best of my knowledge it falls under, “seems to be effective” and “better than nothing” and or anything thing else available.
It what was used on some horses I have been associated with whose blood work came back “suspect”. Which is the problem with the “test” that are available at this time. They can and do come back with suspect titer levels but not confirmed. Maybe just “high normal”. I don’t know nor have worked with any horses that have or have been confirmed with “full blown” lyme. I have only worked with “suspect”.
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That’s our theory but no studies or scientific evidence to back it up.
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I’m glad it’s standard in your area. Very few vets in SE NC will approve this type of treatment for Lyme. It has worked for the horses that have tested positive for Lyme in our barn. What’s interesting to me is the ones that tested positive where originally from the upper NE area with only one shipped in from VA tested borderline positive. Horses from down south haven’t tested positive or even high levels when checked.
