Mad Barn Ionophore Results

[Simkie]

@SolarFlare

Here are the lab tests as posted by Mad Barn (in the comments of the same FB post)

Thank you for posting this!

It took me a sec to figure out the difference between the two pages, so if anyone else is also looking for that: the first page is the sample that Valarie submitted to Mad Barn for testing, and the second page is the control of Amino Trace + that Madbarn also submitted for testing.

The detection limit here is 1 part per billion, so if what she sent them had 36.4 ppb monesin, this test was sensitive enough to pick it up.

Her retesting after…9 months is kinda odd? If she thought the Madbarn test was fraudulent (a heady claim!) why not retest immediately?

@JB

ohhh, I missed that it was a reply, thanks! I really dislike that part about this (not so new anymore) format.

Click here to see what the person is responding to.

[JB]

@Simkie

Click here to see what the person is responding to.

Yep, I know how to do that, thanks, been around a while But I don’t always pay attention to that due to the location in the post, so miss it sometimes.

[Vesper_Sparrow]

My mare also turned up her nose at Amino Trace recently after happily eating it for about 5 or 6 years. We reintroduced it and she’s eating it again. I think I will take her off it until this is settled.
I agree that the person affected seems to have a short fuse, although I would probably be the same if two of my three horses died. She said she is filing an access to information request with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, which supposedly reviewed the case. The results of that should hopefully be enlightening.

[trubandloki]

@Vesper_Sparrow

The results of that should hopefully be enlightening.

But will she share them if they do not show her point of view?

[Vesper_Sparrow]

Don’t know.

[Night_Flight]

Any access request containing information belonging to a third party company generally has some degree of redactions applied to protect the third party (which is allowed as long as the information meets the criteria for exemption), so I expect the horse owner may not get all the information she’s hoping for, or might make assumptions to fill in the blanks of any information that is withheld from disclosure.

[AMWookey]

Also, ATIs are only as good as the people are willing to put the work in, the questions that are.asked, and folks electronic filing systems.

Signed, someone who gets a ton of ATIs in the canadian military

[4horses]

If she’s wrong about this she is opening herself up to a lawsuit. That’s a pretty big risk to take. Although Facebook can have fake accounts and it might be difficult to identify her if that’s a fake profile but not impossible.

[Scribbler]

Mad Barn had a FB post refuting this today, I hadn’t seen this original post to know what the complaint was. I do think if there was a real problem it would affect more than two horses.

Oh I see it’s been linked already never mind

[AMWookey]

I don’t think its a fake account. A quick Google of her name shows a very active and public professional in the field of cyber security and terrorism

[Samondel]

Same thing as Sacha! Horse just stopped eating AT+… Or anything it touched (including all grain and electrolytes, which may have contributed on onset of anhidrosis and general chaos).

[Samondel]

@Vesper_Sparrow

My mare also turned up her nose at Amino Trace recently after happily eating it for about 5 or 6 years. We reintroduced it and she’s eating it again. I think I will take her off it until this is settled.

Well, isn’t that interesting! I thought my horse was just being a dick, as he does have a habit of eating supplements I buy in small amounts, and then rejecting them when I invest the bulk container

[SolarFlare]

@Vesper_Sparrow

I think I will take her off it until this is settled.

Non-snarky question for you - what do you consider “settled”? Curious as Mad Barn has presented evidence from an independent lab showing the actual sample and control do not contain monensin, and explaining how they don’t have it at their facility, and they are certified and inspected under CFIA. On the other hand we have a random person who has posted vague lab reports that don’t clearly identify what was tested.

I have no affiliation with Mad Barn other than as a customer myself, but what needs to be shown to make you feel comfortable feeding their products again? If the CFIA review comes out clearing Mad Barn? I see quite a few comments on FB with others also saying they’re going to stop feeding until this is cleared up, but I don’t know what they will accept as evidence that it is.

I’m curious to see where this all goes, as it seems that Mad Barn may be losing business. If their products were not a cause of the horses’ deaths, and they have proof, then I’d think they have the basis of a lawsuit. I don’t know if they would follow up on it or just let it die down, but people don’t have the best critical thinking skills anymore and it’s spread everywhere without any fact checking.

[JB]

@SolarFlare

Mad Barn has presented evidence from an independent lab showing the actual sample and control do not contain monensin

Devil’s advocate, not taking sides here:

Sometimes contamination is fairly isolated, or is insignificant in most of a batch but part of a batch got a significant dose. It’s like corn that’s used to clean chutes between batches - At some point you might find a handful of corn in your bag, when you’ve found maybe 6 kernels in the last 27 bags.

@SolarFlare

explaining how they don’t have it at their facility, and they are certified and inspected under CFIA

unfortunately this doesn’t account for contamination from a supplier of an ingredient, and they do source some things from mills that are only i-safe.

As far as I can tell, the batch in question was from 12/23. If yours (generally) is before, or after that, then I honestly wouldn’t be concerned

Many companies have come before MB with verified proven contamination being the cause of killing horses, and they’re still around and thriving.

[trubandloki]

@JB

Devil’s advocate, not taking sides here:

Sometimes contamination is fairly isolated, or is insignificant in most of a batch but part of a batch got a significant dose. It’s like corn that’s used to clean chutes between batches - At some point you might find a handful of corn in your bag, when you’ve found maybe 6 kernels in the last 27 bags.

Didn’t the tests show that they actually tested a sample from this person, not just another bag from that batch? Or did I understand that incorrectly?

[SolarFlare]

@trubandloki

Didn’t the tests show that they actually tested a sample from this person, not just another bag from that batch? Or did I understand that incorrectly?

Yes, I understood as well that she sent a sample from the same bag to Mad Barn and they tested that vs a control sample from themselves.

AminoTrace is a pellet - not sure if JB is saying some pellets may have contained a contaminant while other pellets in the same batch did not, but it seems unlikely to me that even if that was the case, that the sample sent only happened to contain “clean” pellets.

ETA: AND the sample that the lady sent to her lab just happened to contain the contaminant. Seems a bit suspect. And that the horse’s symptoms were not consistent with monensin poisoning and there were no findings on necropsy to indicate that either.

[AMWookey]

They said they did, and immediately after. Tested the batch, and the sample the person sent it. And that all their ingredients are tested as they get it.

Mad barn also stated in a comment that the necropsy showed zero signs of cardiovascular damage, rather impaction colic.

[SolarFlare]

@JB

unfortunately this doesn’t account for contamination from a supplier of an ingredient, and they do source some things from mills that are only i-safe.

Mad Barn stated that they test all incoming ingredients for contamination, finished products, and they don’t have ionospheres on the property themselves - so if the suppliers’ ingredients tested clean and there isn’t any monensin around to accidentally cross-contaminate, then it would seem highly unlikely that there was monensin in the supplement. Where did it come from?

From Mad Barn’s FB post (bolding mine):

Our equine products are made in Canada in medication-free facilities that are FDA and CFIA inspected, and adhere to the highest quality standards in feed and supplement manufacturing. We conduct comprehensive testing on all incoming ingredients and finished products to ensure they are safe, free of contamination, and effective for the thousands of horses that feed Mad Barn every day. We also implement robust ongoing Quality Assurance and Control processes led by industry experts, ensuring we consistently deliver on our Customer Happiness Guarantee.

[stillgoing]

I’ve been looking at all this since yesterday morning – MB did a test in Jan. as the owner was concerned after her three horses became sick and two died after eating the MB product. They sent results to owner but the monensin wasn’t shown (She posted these on her FB page today and describes what happened). In August, owner heard about the horses in OK dying from monensin, talked to the vet there, then based on that sent her sample from the original product to A&M for a new test that would show any levels of monensin. That test, done in Sept. after the OK horse disaster which caused her to question again the MB test results, came back positive for monensin. She posted the A&M test on her FB page today. She had three horses get very sick all at once, two died, one recovered. The product in question came back after the second test showing positive for monensin. So do the math. Supplements are made up of ingredients that come from various sources, so a third party source could be the issue if they don’t have monensin free facilities and mills. And it’s possible that a contaminated batch only has spots of the ingredient while other parts of the same batch are “clean.” I’ve certainly opened up bags of feed or supplements and had clumps of ingredients that hadn’t mixed entirely with the rest of the bag – I’ve even found chunks of wood and plastic in bags of beet pulp shreds. The ONLY way to insure we don’t inadvertently feed something bad to our horses is to ONLY buy from companies that ONLY source ingredients from monenson-free facilities that are in the US or Canada and inspected. One ingredient in the MB supplement is manufactured in Brazil, so I don’t know how that facility would be monitored (it’s the YEA-SAC, made by Alltech). It really shouldn’t be this hard to just feed safe food to our animals, esp. considering how much we spend on it all. I shouldn’t have to read ingredient labels and then go look up each and every source to see if they are ok or not. That’s NOT MY JOB.

[trubandloki]

@stillgoing

I’ve been looking at all this since yesterday morning – MB did a test in Jan. as the owner was concerned after her three horses became sick and two died after eating the MB product. They sent results to owner but the monensin wasn’t shown (She posted these on her FB page today and describes what happened). In August, owner heard about the horses in OK dying from monensin, talked to the vet there, then based on that sent her sample from the original product to A&M for a new test that would show any levels of monensin. That test, done in Sept. after the OK horse disaster which caused her to question again the MB test results, came back positive for monensin. She posted the A&M test on her FB page today. She had three horses get very sick all at once, two died, one recovered. The product in question came back after the second test showing positive for monensin. So do the math. Supplements are made up of ingredients that come from various sources, so a third party source could be the issue if they don’t have monensin free facilities and mills. And it’s possible that a contaminated batch only has spots of the ingredient while other parts of the same batch are “clean.” I’ve certainly opened up bags of feed or supplements and had clumps of ingredients that hadn’t mixed entirely with the rest of the bag – I’ve even found chunks of wood and plastic in bags of beet pulp shreds. The ONLY way to insure we don’t inadvertently feed something bad to our horses is to ONLY buy from companies that ONLY source ingredients from monenson-free facilities that are in the US or Canada and inspected. One ingredient in the MB supplement is manufactured in Brazil, so I don’t know how that facility would be monitored (it’s the YEA-SAC, made by Alltech). It really shouldn’t be this hard to just feed safe food to our animals, esp. considering how much we spend on it all. I shouldn’t have to read ingredient labels and then go look up each and every source to see if they are ok or not. That’s NOT MY JOB.

Are you ignoring the part that the necropsy showed impaction colic, not signs of poisoning?

I feel bad for this person but it seems more like she is looking for a payout than something that really happened. Her sample, all those months later, just happened to have the current drug that that people in a tizzy in it.